Extinction Rebellion and Farming

[Chris F]

I've been at the Sustainable Food Trust event on Climate Change and Net-zero 2040 over the past few days and as part of it got to meet Gail Bradbrook one of the co-founders of Extinction Rebellion (XR) which was an absolute pleasure to be honest. Her views on farming is that it is part of the solution to solving climate change - although they have called for net-zero carbon by 2025. She also spoke about understanding that livestock farming doesn't conflict with this goal and actually sees how it helps.

So that is all good.

She also asked for farmers to join them on the next protest. To show we are doing our part in being net-zero and consumers and other industry need to do their part too. Things like it costs approx 8kg of CO2 to fly 1kg of food around the world.

But then I read this:

https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/extinction-rebellion-meets-vegan-groups-disrupting-animal-ag

Extinction Rebellion Meets Animal Justice Groups To Discuss Disrupting Animal Ag
The organizations discussed the mobilization of 10,000 animal advocates this October in nonviolent mass disruption of the industries of animal agriculture and fishing

Gail has said the following:

So question is - how can extinction rebellion ask for the support of farmers and target them at the same time? Seems to be a massive lack of understanding in their membership of which I bet a lot (more than the national average) are vegan.

 

[delilah]

I have been saying for 30 years that the environmental movement and UK agriculture are each others greatest allies.
Sure, every movement has its extreme wing (farming included) but if the question is should farmers work with or without the green lobby then the answer must surely be with.
Localism/ food miles/ CO2 capture are the big issues, veganism is a relatively minor diversion.

 

[Henarar]

Did you invite her to join TFF @Chris F ?

 

[kiwi pom]

I have been saying for 30 years that the environmental movement and UK agriculture are each others greatest allies.
Sure, every movement has its extreme wing (farming included) but if the question is should farmers work with or without the green lobby then the answer must surely be with.
Localism/ food miles/ CO2 capture are the big issues, veganism is a relatively minor at diversion.

With a focus on localism and food miles you really need to add in ‘seasonal ‘. What happens to all the products that would not be sustainable or environmentally friendly, produced locally? Start telling the public what they can and can’t buy and watch them go out of their way to avoid doing it.
That’s before you get to the grey area of comparing the whole life production costs of a product from different countries, instead of just focusing on food miles.

 

[Chris F]

Did you invite her to join TFF @Chris F ?

No she isn't a farmer - she is the daughter of a coal miner.

 

[delilah]

With a focus on localism and food miles you really need to add in ‘seasonal ‘. What happens to all the products that would not be sustainable or environmentally friendly, produced locally? Start telling the public what they can and can’t buy and watch them go out of their way to avoid doing it.
That’s before you get to the grey area of comparing the whole life production costs of a product from different countries, instead of just focusing on food miles.

agreed, but 'seasonal' is a moveable feast. Soft fruit that wasn't in season in May/ November in Kent 30 years ago is now thanks to improved technology (and, ironically, climate change).

 

[Beowulf]

With a focus on localism and food miles you really need to add in ‘seasonal ‘. What happens to all the products that would not be sustainable or environmentally friendly, produced locally? Start telling the public what they can and can’t buy and watch them go out of their way to avoid doing it.
That’s before you get to the grey area of comparing the whole life production costs of a product from different countries, instead of just focusing on food miles.

This. A thousand times this.

Tell people that you are swapping their plastic packaging for a brown paper sack and they'll shrug their shoulders. Tell them that their new car has been modified to be less harmful to the environment and they'll nod approvingly.

Tell them they can't have bananas for their kids lunch boxes, or that they aren't allowed to eat tomatoes because it's February and they'll get pee'd off. Tell them they no longer have a summer holiday in Turkey because flying is bad for the planet and they'll become mutinous.

Once you start sucking the enjoyment and happiness out of the ordinary person's life they'll become actively disengaged from the very idea you are trying to promote.

 

[Doc]

@Chris F can not TFF be a broad church too?
Everybody eats.
It is a great resource for non farmers to get to know how diverse Ag systems, practice and opinion is.
I suspect some of the threads, particularly the regen/holistic type would be an eye opener for many consumers and eco lobby groups who may have negative preconceptions about farming generally.
Surely we should welcome them and invite debate.

 

[Formatted]

@Chris F have you put that point to her?

 

[Goweresque]

So question is - how can extinction rebellion ask for the support of farmers and target them at the same time?

Simple, she was lying to you.

Judge people by their actions not their words. The Ancients knew this millennia ago - as it says in the Bible - by their fruits shall ye know them.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Simple, she was lying to you.

Judge people by their actions not their words. The Ancients knew this millennia ago - as it says in the Bible - by their fruits shall ye know them.

Yes she wants as much oxygen as possible for her cause

 

[Bald Rick]

Just a point of interest:

XR have a massive conflict at the leadership level with one group advocating one course of action only to be contradicted by the other faction.

Bit like farming sectors come to think of it

 

[betweenthelines]

Who is she? What is her mandate (ie who voted for her) ? Who does she represent? What relevant qualifications does she have?

If she's just a 21st Century loudmouth/social media wannabee, who's just spouting her personal, unevidenced, unscientific views, she needs to be treated with as much respect as any nobody trying to be somebody.

The trouble with the vegan/veggie/environmental debate is that it's being steered by people like this, who, quite frankly know feck all about the subject in hand, but are described by the media as "experts"As in "animal welfare expert says....." when they're not an expert in any sense of the word, just someone with an opinion -usually ill informed.

Would you ask a Certified Accountant to advise you on your tax affairs, or take the advise of some random stranger with no knowlege or experience? So why take climate change advice from some random youngster?

North Wyke have just started a serious research project into farming and the environment, lets wait to see what they say!

 

[Raider112]

@Chris F can not TFF be a broad church too?
Everybody eats.
It is a great resource for non farmers to get to know how diverse Ag systems, practice and opinion is.
I suspect some of the threads, particularly the regen/holistic type would be an eye opener for many consumers and eco lobby groups who may have negative preconceptions about farming generally.
Surely we should welcome them and invite debate.

Debate is fine but imagine the hassle a vegan version of Fallowfield could cause.

 

[7610 super q]

This. A thousand times this.

Tell people that you are swapping their plastic packaging for a brown paper sack and they'll shrug their shoulders. Tell them that their new car has been modified to be less harmful to the environment and they'll nod approvingly.

Tell them they can't have bananas for their kids lunch boxes, or that they aren't allowed to eat tomatoes because it's February and they'll get pee'd off. Tell them they no longer have a summer holiday in Turkey because flying is bad for the planet and they'll become mutinous.

Once you start sucking the enjoyment and happiness out of the ordinary person's life they'll become actively disengaged from the very idea you are trying to promote.

Well, if we are serious about " saving the planet ", air travel will have to end. Transporting goods and produce from one side of the planet to the other will have to end. Consumerism will have to end. And that's that.

 

[Chris F]

@Chris F can not TFF be a broad church too?
Everybody eats.
It is a great resource for non farmers to get to know how diverse Ag systems, practice and opinion is.
I suspect some of the threads, particularly the regen/holistic type would be an eye opener for many consumers and eco lobby groups who may have negative preconceptions about farming generally.
Surely we should welcome them and invite debate.

Of course and if Gail wanted to join and chat she would be more than welcome. I just don’t “invite” non farmers. She was doing her bit at the Sutainable Food event and spoke about food miles as well if I recall correctly. They did say her talk would go on YouTube. I’ll add it here when it does. She understands at lot of want we are saying already, I don’t think we would even be debating with her.

 

[Chris F]

Yes she wants as much oxygen as possible for her cause

I’d argue it’s “our” cause. Especially if you have kids. Also as we keep saying. Farming is the solution to the worlds climate issues.

 

[spin cycle]

Well, if we are serious about " saving the planet ", air travel will have to end. Transporting goods and produce from one side of the planet to the other will have to end. Consumerism will have to end. And that's that.

exactly....XR ....if they're right about the impact of climate change...arn't extreme enough at mo IMO

 

[7610 super q]

exactly....XR ....if they're right about the impact of climate change...arn't extreme enough at mo IMO

Pathetic climate change protests ain't going to cut the mustard. Nor wailing on Facebook. Nor jetting off to t'other side of the world for a climate change conference......
Drastic measures are needed. Do it, or do it not. TBH, I don't give a f**k.

 

[spin cycle]

Pathetic climate change protests ain't going to cut the mustard. Nor wailing on Facebook. Nor jetting off to t'other side of the world for a climate change conference......
Drastic measures are needed. Do it, or do it not. TBH, I don't give a fudge.

you're right either do it....or ignore it....at the mo it's a case of persecuting some sectors whilst exempting others...eg new heathrow