Farm assured transport

[gone up the hill]

Probably ,last year I bought some cows in good faith and sold to me like wise the owner was retiring cows had in date stickers on passport , pd cows sent barrens in with mine ,linked the land rented off him to my holding nabbattoir but before 90 days retention put my sticker in the passport although the cows never moved as advised by bcms both of us were fa with the same firm , the abbotoir docked his ex cows £60/head ,I asked why ? They said I hadnt had cows 90 days and they werent assurred turned out although that years fee had been paid by him he had telephoned the assurance co. as he wanted to stop the next years DD as no longer keeping cattle .I took this up with cmi apparently they phoned the abbottoir but were not prepared to compensate me personally I think the assurance co. was at fault though as the stickers were in date for both of us

If he had paid the years fee then the assurance is valid upto the expiry date of that year even thou he told them he wouldn't be renewing.

All company's have a min period that cattle have to be on the farm who consigned them to the killing plant ( ie 21/28 days etc ) so it maybe this rule that you fell foul of.

 

[gone up the hill]

Ref the OP, im afraid this is the sort of BS that will just get worse and worse due to RT/ farm assurance having more and more control over our business if things are allowed to carry on the way they are going.

RT/ farm assurance is all about paperwork/ paperwork and more paperwork.

 

[gone up the hill]

Is this the relevant section? last column seems to infer the farmer unless in NI may only transport his/her own

View attachment 489204

Actually says that NI farmers if assured can transport stock for upto 5 neighbours as long as they are assured as well.

 

[beefandsleep]

RT/ farm assurance is all about paperwork/ paperwork and more paperwork.

And control and money and creating jobs for a certain type of person.

 

[beefandsleep]

Actually says that NI farmers if assured can transport stock for upto 5 neighbours as long as they are assured as well.

Ridiculous that it's not even a level playing field within U.K.

 

[llamedos]

Actually says that NI farmers if assured can transport stock for upto 5 neighbours as long as they are assured as well.

which is what I wrote.

 

[milkloss]

I would try and raise the question as to why they are not encouraging farmers to be more environmentally friendly by pooling transport as well as giving individual animals in transport the opportunity to have company.

 

[JP1]

Actually says that NI farmers if assured can transport stock for upto 5 neighbours as long as they are assured as well.

Exactly. So if he's not in NI the assumption may be that his actions are not within the Assurance scheme.

You've got to admit farmers on own goods insurance and on own goods licence on their 7,5 tonners have been moving other farmer's stock for years? Not exactly a level playing field if you're a haulier

 

[beefandsleep]

Exactly. So if he's not in NI the assumption may be that his actions are not within the Assurance scheme.

You've got to admit farmers on own goods insurance and on own goods licence on their 7,5 tonners have been moving other farmer's stock for years? Not exactly a level playing field if you're a haulier

So we should have restrictive rules to protect other industries and add costs to our own?
What is wrong with a few neighbouring farmers pooling resources and sharing transport? It means fewer under loaded journeys, fewer road miles traveled so less fuel burnt, tyres worn etc etc.

 

[JP1]

So we should have restrictive rules to protect other industries and add costs to our own?
What is wrong with a few neighbouring farmers pooling resources and sharing transport? It means fewer under loaded journeys, fewer road miles traveled so less fuel burnt, tyres worn etc etc.

Nothing at all.

You are conducting a business for hire and reward.

You would automatically go on to at least Domestic Driver's Hours if not full EU Driver's hours. If the driver was a farmer, how would he account for his end of week 45 hour rest or end of duty daily rest period?

How much more would one pay for insurance to perform transport?

I seem to remember the annual ABM or other bodywork inspection and re-certification is £150 + VAT a year (that's £30 a cow for five other cattle).

I'm all for a level playing field and just asking the questions.

By the way I begrudgingly got farm assured because just one cull cow got robbed of 40p / kg as non FA a while back, so the "fee" is almost like a ransom when selling deadweight or live around here goes to one buyer in the end anyway.

 

[Henarar]

You are conducting a business for hire and reward.

You would automatically go on to at least Domestic Driver's Hours if not full EU Driver's hours. If the driver was a farmer, how would he account for his end of week 45 hour rest or end of duty daily rest period?

No you wouldn't
well not with a 4wd and trailer anyway, 7.5 ton lorry or bigger maybe different

 

[JP1]

No you wouldn't
well not with a 4wd and trailer anyway, 7.5 ton lorry or bigger maybe different

Sorry but you would. Own account and local is far different to transport. You'd almost certainly be on tacho and you'd certainly have to comply with at least Domestic Driver regs.

How much does an empty Landrover and cow trailer weigh?

That's the trouble isn't it when folks start to muddy the waters?

 

[Henarar]

Sorry but you would. Own account and local is far different to transport. You'd almost certainly be on tacho and you'd certainly have to comply with at least Domestic Driver regs.

How much does an empty Landrover and cow trailer weigh?

That's the trouble isn't it when folks start to muddy the waters?

think your wrong, there are some limits but no taco or operators is required

 

[JP1]

think your wrong, there are some limits but no taco or operators is required

I believe own account farmers in a B class driver licensed vehicle overcome the maximum weight regs with a dual purpose vehicle exemption. Otherwise it is my strong belief that your total gtw could not exceed 3500kgs before at least the old Domestic Driver (log book) rules would apply.

Trust me, VOSA or DVSA can ask the questions about your exemptions. They can also require you to account for hours if they believe you are performing duties within their jurisdiction. The interesting one is usually the end of week 45 hour rest. You can reduce this in limited circumstances as long as the average over a three week period amounts to the same. The usual thing is for them to move the sliding window over their chosen 3 week window where it often disadvantages you most.

Tacho and O licence are not the same thing

 

[JP1]

think your wrong, there are some limits but no taco or operators is required

I may be wrong, tis just a feint historical haze at Recklesham Hill, Yeovil College exam in 1984

 

[beefandsleep]

I am a fully licensed operator albeit on a restricted O licence. For what reason should I not be able to move a mates cattle for him foc as a favour? I can do it legally as it is not for hire or reward. You are confusing licensing laws with FA rules. The two have nothing to do with each other.
I totally respect the law and drivers hours regs, vehicle checks etc are essential and a good thing.
If my wagon is ok to transport my own stock for FA purposes it should be ok for anybody else's, there is no justification for it.

 

[JP1]

I am a fully licensed operator albeit on a restricted O licence. For what reason should I not be able to move a mates cattle for him foc as a favour? I can do it legally as it is not for hire or reward. You are confusing licensing laws with FA rules. The two have nothing to do with each other.
I totally respect the law and drivers hours regs, vehicle checks etc are essential and a good thing.
If my wagon is ok to transport my own stock for FA purposes it should be ok for anybody else's, there is no justification for it.

Please see my original post where I said I thought you could but that you would need documentation to prove you were either ABM or other standard haulier assured or acting as a collection centre.

I'd never want to argue the toss at a roadside about FOC versus how a court might assess "commercial gain". Somebody is gaining and I bet they'd have a prosecuting lawyer arguing as such.

My subsequent posts are largely centred on the legality of haulage with a pickup or other class B licensed vehicle and in response to @Henarar

There is a risk you start to stir up a hornet's nest with either discussion tbh

 

[beefandsleep]

Agreed, in fact speak to three vosa inspectors and you will get three different interpretations of most regs.

 

[Henarar]

duel purpose vehicles and their trailers are exempt from O licence
and you can go 100km from base without a tacho
top bloke for this sort of thing at the NFU told me this at a meeting the other day
so the only problem is insurance

 

[JP1]

duel purpose vehicles and their trailers are exempt from O licence
and you can go 100km from base without a tacho
top bloke for this sort of thing at the NFU told me this at a meeting the other day
so the only problem is insurance

You need to go back to your top bloke and get in writing what he actually said

For a class B vehicle I never mentioned an O licence

If you are not on own account , I'd like to see your exemption from at least Domestic Drivers Hours regs as soon as your GTW exceeds 3500kg I.e. Vehicle, trailer and load