Farm market place

[willy]

@Clive are Chems going to be sold or not?

I think it's a good idea, but so far too many bits and bobs and not enough of the big spends priced or listed.

 

[Clive]

@Clive are Chems going to be sold or not?

I think it's a good idea, but so far too many bits and bobs and not enough of the big spends priced or listed.

Short answer = yes !

Longer answer =

they were being sold but frankly it caused so much trouble in the industry last week when we launched we had to temporarily suspend sales until we make a few changes to how we do it

Lots on this thread https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/chemical-prices-and-secrecy.183136/page-20

Following a couple of meetings this week I think we have a way forward that works for our vendors /manufacturers / distributors so hopefully we will have them back online for sale this side of the weekend


What we did last Monday was an industry first, not everyone likes change like that so some try to get in the way of this progression

www.marketplace.farm has been a massive success so far, farmer support has made a lot raise that this IS going to happen and the industry wants it.

 

[willy]

well done for trying. lets hope the cartels allow free trade.

 

[Clive]

well done for trying. lets hope the cartels allow free trade.

It's all rather complicated but I think solutions can be found.

There are 2 key issues, we have to solve

1 - Those that would like to supply via Farm Marketplace (now several manufacturers, distributors etc) also have more traditional business to sustain both serviced and quote, online price availability makes that existing business difficult in various ways.

2 - Farmers simply using the prices on Marketplace as a stick to beat up existing suppliers with and not actually buying online - we are our own worst enemies here as farmers ! How long do we think product will be available online if we don't actually buy them there ?


I think we have some potential solutions for the above and we are working on them right now (its raining !)

 

[Derrick Hughes]

They need to see the advantages of selling online . Nationwide sales without the risk and hasle of chasing money . For someone to use it as an advertising tool is not being fair and honest and dont deserve to be part off it

 

[Clive]

They need to see the advantages of selling online . Nationwide sales without the risk and hassle of chasing money . For someone to use it as an advertising tool is not being fair and honest and dont deserve to be part off it

To be fair those that want to be involved in this do see that advantage and know that this is the future of how they will do business

the trouble they have is they also have well established traditional routes to market that pay the bills right now and its understandable that they don't wish to upset that

Following the meetings I had earlier this week I think we have a workable solution but we are having to tweak the website a bit to make it possible

 

[Cab-over Pete]

It's all rather complicated but I think solutions can be found.

There are 2 key issues, we have to solve

1 - Those that would like to supply via Farm Marketplace (now several manufacturers, distributors etc) also have more traditional business to sustain both serviced and quote, online price availability makes that existing business difficult in various ways.

2 - Farmers simply using the prices on Marketplace as a stick to beat up existing suppliers with and not actually buying online - we are our own worst enemies here as farmers ! How long do we think product will be available online if we don't actually buy them there ?


I think we have some potential solutions for the above and we are working on them right now (its raining !)

You are right, you are your own worst enemies.

On the one hand you want to buy direct, get everything as cheap as possible, cut out middle men, deal nationally, click a mouse, get it delivered to your door, shave the costs no matter what, stick two fingers up to the big agrochemical companies and still demand quick, top quality service from the other end of the country or over the sea. You like the look of online deals on product prices which are tempting but don't actually save you bugger all by the time the online supplier has hiked the price before giving you an "online only discount". You don't want to deal local any more because that supplier wants to make a living and you don't like anyone making a living from you.

On the other, many farmers want us (the public - I only hobby farm) to buy more local at a premium!

You want ad campaigns in shops telling the buyer how a couple of extra pence will go to the dairy farmer if they buy this particular bottle of milk for more money. You open farm shops to entice local people, sell at local farmers markets for a premium and demand more traceability for the food you produce.
Micro breweries spring up and sell great tasting but expensive local beers. You tell the consumer a story of provenance and the blood, sweat and tears that you and your family have shed to produce the best welfare friendly and safest food in the world.

All the time everybody laments at how the local town and village has no facilities any more. No independent suppliers, no hardware store, no vans come round to farms loaded with stuff for sale, no gate man and very few local machinery dealers. How it's all getting into the hands of fewer, bigger companies.

I entirely understand how this could work with a huge, faceless chemical company and I applaud what your doing there to an extent.

But boots? Coats? Water fittings and other bits and bobs?

Get it local. Help your local community. You expect them to help you.

Before anybody asks, yes, I do just that wherever possible. Within 10 miles of here are my local suppliers of fuel, tools, machine filters and accessories, bearings and belts, lubricants, tyre repairs and sales, car repair man, timber supplier, independent engineers, accountants, bank and workwear sales. Most of those would be within 5 miles actually and I never ask prices anywhere else or go anywhere else.

I buy the nearest lime I can and it just happens to be the best you could ask for. I could get cheaper, but it's rubbish. I use three of the most local hauliers to me and I am pleased to say we've dealt with them for over 20 years. The fertiliser is different, but you can bet your life if a local source opened up I would be among the first to go and see them.

Maybe I'm a Luddite, I don't know or care. It's a good feeling to deal with local people and good when they recommend me to others.

If anyone buys their own lime online and then asks me to spread it, be prepared to be at the bottom of a very long waiting list. That list will be made up of many loyal people who think like me.

 

[Clive]

Buyers will only pay a premium above or beyond the lowest cost option if they get something more in return for that extra spend

That extra something might simply be the satisfaction of supporting the local guy or it may be a higher level of service than an online vendor can supply - but either way the value MUST be there or the customer is simply (quite undesirably) going to buy on price. When as farmers we ask consumers to buy UK meat or milk we do so by marketing our product as better (higher welfare etc) or by appealing to the customers desire to support his country or local economy etc.

Companies that provide service that justifies a premium price are not going to be competing with the online prices of products but they WILL have to make sure what they add to the deal is worth the extra cost

Online supply does also add value however sometimes - where else can you buy 24/7/365 for example ? The world is changing , outside of agriculture there is a massive move towards online buying, this is because its both convenient and often cheaper, I can't see the trend reversing anytime soon and ag being any different ultimately. If we hadn't done this I'm pretty sure someone else would have

 

[Sussex Martin]

Spot on @Cab-over Pete loyalty works both ways. I have people that I have done a number of quotes for that they then use to beat up another supplier, I don't do quotes for them anymore.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

To be fair those that want to be involved in this do see that advantage and know that this is the future of how they will do business

the trouble they have is they also have well established traditional routes to market that pay the bills right now and its understandable that they don't wish to upset that

Following the meetings I had earlier this week I think we have a workable solution but we are having to tweak the website a bit to make it possible

Seems they dont see the advantages of selling online so dont want to discount this , if someone does not mind paying up front my products are cheaper with you and thats what my customers will be told

 

[Derrick Hughes]

" I buy sawdust off you on on tff at £2.45 [emoji6]its cheaper"
Got that from a customer the other night

 

[Clive]

Seems they dont see the advantages of selling online so dont want to discount this , if someone does not mind paying up front my products are cheaper with you and thats what my customers will be told

what you're demonstrating well is that credit has a cost, your online price is cheaper as you no longer have that cost or risk

I think most buyers are grown up enough to understand that

same goes for MP chemical prices - of course they are way below a serviced agronomy price but they include nothing to cover the cost of agronomy or credit etc so it would be silly to expect the service agronomist to match it

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Buyers will only pay a premium above or beyond the lowest cost option if they get something more in return for that extra spend

That extra something might simply be the satisfaction of supporting the local guy or it may be a higher level of service than an online vendor can supply - but either way the value MUST be there or the customer is simply (quite undesirably) going to buy on price. When as farmers we ask consumers to buy UK meat or milk we do so by marketing our product as better (higher welfare etc) or by appealing to the customers desire to support his country or local economy etc.

Companies that provide service that justifies a premium price are not going to be competing with the online prices of products but they WILL have to make sure what they add to the deal is worth the extra cost

Online supply does also add value however sometimes - where else can you buy 24/7/365 for example ? The world is changing , outside of agriculture there is a massive move towards online buying, this is because its both convenient and often cheaper, I can't see the trend reversing anytime soon and ag being any different ultimately. If we hadn't done this I'm pretty sure someone else would have

Oh I understand all that and I'm not decrying what you're doing. As you say, if it wasn't you it would have been somebody else.

I just wonder why we need the option of buying Roundup at 7.45 on a Sunday evening?

At that time we should be watching Countryfile to see if Anita is wearing shorts.

I hope it works well for you and your customers. I'm just asking farmers not to forget the local supplier, and not just because I am one. If loads of farmers desert a local supplier, he's not there for me either if he goes to the wall.

Thinking about it, another comparable site needs to spark up. Just to keep you on your toes and competitive.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Oh I understand all that and I'm not decrying what you're doing. As you say, if it wasn't you it would have been somebody else.

I just wonder why we need the option of buying Roundup at 7.45 on a Sunday evening?

At that time we should be watching Countryfile to see if Anita is wearing shorts.

I hope it works well for you and your customers. I'm just asking farmers not to forget the local supplier, and not just because I am one. If loads of farmers desert a local supplier, he's not there for me either if he goes to the wall.

Thinking about it, another comparable site needs to spark up. Just to keep you on your toes and competitive.

Not sure if I agree, This gives small suppliers the option to sell nationwide without advertising costs and worry about getting the money in , big companies would have stores Nationwide so doing what they need to do already

 

[Clive]

Oh I understand all that and I'm not decrying what you're doing. As you say, if it wasn't you it would have been somebody else.

I just wonder why we need the option of buying Roundup at 7.45 on a Sunday evening?

At that time we should be watching Countryfile to see if Anita is wearing shorts.

I hope it works well for you and your customers. I'm just asking farmers not to forget the local supplier, and not just because I am one. If loads of farmers desert a local supplier, he's not there for me either if he goes to the wall.

Thinking about it, another comparable site needs to spark up. Just to keep you on your toes and competitive.

we had a checkout last week at 1.45am - some vet meds, I contacted the buyer as I thought time was suspicious and he told me he did it at that time as he had a breakdown milking and then had been out with a sick animal so had just got in and thought he would do it while it was in his head or in case he forgot after sleeping on it

we dont "have to" do anything in at 7.45 on a sunday morning if we dont want to but there is no harm in having the option when we do

 

[kfpben]

You are right, you are your own worst enemies.

On the one hand you want to buy direct, get everything as cheap as possible, cut out middle men, deal nationally, click a mouse, get it delivered to your door, shave the costs no matter what, stick two fingers up to the big agrochemical companies and still demand quick, top quality service from the other end of the country or over the sea. You like the look of online deals on product prices which are tempting but don't actually save you bugger all by the time the online supplier has hiked the price before giving you an "online only discount". You don't want to deal local any more because that supplier wants to make a living and you don't like anyone making a living from you.

On the other, many farmers want us (the public - I only hobby farm) to buy more local at a premium!

You want ad campaigns in shops telling the buyer how a couple of extra pence will go to the dairy farmer if they buy this particular bottle of milk for more money. You open farm shops to entice local people, sell at local farmers markets for a premium and demand more traceability for the food you produce.
Micro breweries spring up and sell great tasting but expensive local beers. You tell the consumer a story of provenance and the blood, sweat and tears that you and your family have shed to produce the best welfare friendly and safest food in the world.

All the time everybody laments at how the local town and village has no facilities any more. No independent suppliers, no hardware store, no vans come round to farms loaded with stuff for sale, no gate man and very few local machinery dealers. How it's all getting into the hands of fewer, bigger companies.

I entirely understand how this could work with a huge, faceless chemical company and I applaud what your doing there to an extent.

But boots? Coats? Water fittings and other bits and bobs?

Get it local. Help your local community. You expect them to help you.

Before anybody asks, yes, I do just that wherever possible. Within 10 miles of here are my local suppliers of fuel, tools, machine filters and accessories, bearings and belts, lubricants, tyre repairs and sales, car repair man, timber supplier, independent engineers, accountants, bank and workwear sales. Most of those would be within 5 miles actually and I never ask prices anywhere else or go anywhere else.

I buy the nearest lime I can and it just happens to be the best you could ask for. I could get cheaper, but it's rubbish. I use three of the most local hauliers to me and I am pleased to say we've dealt with them for over 20 years. The fertiliser is different, but you can bet your life if a local source opened up I would be among the first to go and see them.

Maybe I'm a Luddite, I don't know or care. It's a good feeling to deal with local people and good when they recommend me to others.

If anyone buys their own lime online and then asks me to spread it, be prepared to be at the bottom of a very long waiting list. That list will be made up of many loyal people who think like me.

Superb post. I enjoy dealing with good, local suppliers who are part of my community. I enjoy weighing up price, quality, service. I enjoy haggling if needed.

Using a faceless online click and buy service just holds no interest. And yes, up to now I have used the MVF website as 'a stick to beat my current suppliers with'. Why not? It's never MVFs best price on there anyway!

Maybe I'm a 30 year old dinosaur but I like dealing with people.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Superb post. I enjoy dealing with good, local suppliers who are part of my community. I enjoy weighing up price, quality, service. I enjoy haggling if needed.

Using a faceless online click and buy service just holds no interest. And yes, up to now I have used the MVF website as 'a stick to beat my current suppliers with'. Why not? It's never MVFs best price on there anyway!

Maybe I'm a 30 year old dinosaur but I like dealing with people.

They have a phone and chat option, you can phone me anytime , but please not Sunday

 

[willy]

i think there is one thing that we as farmers are forgetting.......we are the lowest denominator in a chain. we have to make savings where we can as we cannot just up the price of our wheat (unless doing small scale neiche). so its alright saying we want to support local and all that, but unlike a cafe or a service industry we cannot just pass costs on. and so we have to be lean and mean going forward, especially with change thats going on just around the corner!!!

 

[milkloss]

You are right, you are your own worst enemies.

On the one hand you want to buy direct, get everything as cheap as possible, cut out middle men, deal nationally, click a mouse, get it delivered to your door, shave the costs no matter what, stick two fingers up to the big agrochemical companies and still demand quick, top quality service from the other end of the country or over the sea. You like the look of online deals on product prices which are tempting but don't actually save you bugger all by the time the online supplier has hiked the price before giving you an "online only discount". You don't want to deal local any more because that supplier wants to make a living and you don't like anyone making a living from you.

On the other, many farmers want us (the public - I only hobby farm) to buy more local at a premium!

You want ad campaigns in shops telling the buyer how a couple of extra pence will go to the dairy farmer if they buy this particular bottle of milk for more money. You open farm shops to entice local people, sell at local farmers markets for a premium and demand more traceability for the food you produce.
Micro breweries spring up and sell great tasting but expensive local beers. You tell the consumer a story of provenance and the blood, sweat and tears that you and your family have shed to produce the best welfare friendly and safest food in the world.

All the time everybody laments at how the local town and village has no facilities any more. No independent suppliers, no hardware store, no vans come round to farms loaded with stuff for sale, no gate man and very few local machinery dealers. How it's all getting into the hands of fewer, bigger companies.

I entirely understand how this could work with a huge, faceless chemical company and I applaud what your doing there to an extent.

But boots? Coats? Water fittings and other bits and bobs?

Get it local. Help your local community. You expect them to help you.

Before anybody asks, yes, I do just that wherever possible. Within 10 miles of here are my local suppliers of fuel, tools, machine filters and accessories, bearings and belts, lubricants, tyre repairs and sales, car repair man, timber supplier, independent engineers, accountants, bank and workwear sales. Most of those would be within 5 miles actually and I never ask prices anywhere else or go anywhere else.

I buy the nearest lime I can and it just happens to be the best you could ask for. I could get cheaper, but it's rubbish. I use three of the most local hauliers to me and I am pleased to say we've dealt with them for over 20 years. The fertiliser is different, but you can bet your life if a local source opened up I would be among the first to go and see them.

Maybe I'm a Luddite, I don't know or care. It's a good feeling to deal with local people and good when they recommend me to others.

If anyone buys their own lime online and then asks me to spread it, be prepared to be at the bottom of a very long waiting list. That list will be made up of many loyal people who think like me.

I get what you're saying Pete but sometimes local suppliers just take the pee (on price or not even wanting to give a price). Take a bearing as an example: bearing goes in an awkward spot, you don't know how to get it out or what size it is. Go to dealer and get some tips/diagrams and order the part. I don't mind paying silly prices so much if they've helped me save 5 hours dealer labour at ££££££. What I do mind is asking for a bearing for such and such machine which is apparently part no. Gobbledoook-no-reference-to-an-actual-size and being charged stupid money when it is actually a bog standard bearing available for a fraction of the price online.

Another one is chemicals (funny that) I rang two suppliers for prices on basic chemicals and really struggled to get a price. When I did they were so far apart I wondered if they had even quoted for the same thing and chased for confirmation. I didn't need advice but if I had I would of used one of them as the supplier out of courtesy. These vastly different prices made me question how many farmers just put stuff on account and take the hit. I don't and I can't afford to operate that way, all the best to you if you can. I will still buy things like water fittings, wormer etc local as those items need to be on the shelf ready to go but make no mistake: I won't be conned because of it.

 

[richard hammond]

Spot on @Cab-over Pete loyalty works both ways. I have people that I have done a number of quotes for that they then use to beat up another supplier, I don't do quotes for them anymore.

As I have said before if you as a buyer Dutch Auction prices you will loose all respect from all suppliers, I tell all the people I buy from do not come back and say "I could have done that cheaper if you had told me!" I cannot do the buying and the selling!!!!