Farm Subsidies......expand or GET OUT???

[beltbreaker]

Why not look at being more efficient? I see plenty of businesses look to grow but lose their edge and therefore their efficiency.

Expansion can be inefficient unless you are really on your A game. Extra rent, extra hrs on gear. More hassles spreading crops/animals over more land.

My cattle books have looked pretty good this last 2 years but that's because prices have been pretty good, feed and fert bought well and feet spread sensibly. 98 and 100% calf to cows surviving through to selling is the biggest difference. A change of bull and more twins plus mortality is down from 10 to 4%. Better drier summers and until this last month cheaper winter feeding. Also a bit of luck!!

 

[principal skinner]

Out of interest would you mind saying what the diversification are ??

Industrial let’s, workshops and storage
Livery, wife’s business and a good income
Containers, for storage
Lorry parking
Green waste
The above pay more than 950 acres arable. Fact.
More sheds going up in 2024
More SFI in 24
If it pays well, I’m interested. We’ve got the expensive bit (freehold on the land) and I’m not adverse to a busy diverse yard if it pays well. I can ponce about with the arable and keep busy.

 

[MrNoo]

I think the point is more if you aren't making money from farming, why would you choose to go into another business as a way of continuing to farm?

Because some years you do well and others you’re fecked. A friend rents out on Air B&B a twin room above a converted garage for £120/night, recons he clears £30k/year. Who’d bother farming with returns like that?? No Red Tractor, no NFU or ADHB rubbish. And if it rains all August he doesn’t care. It’s obviously very area specific.

 

[Red Fred]

When we were kids in the 60s, "diversification" wasn't a thing, it was just how we went on on a small family farm. Mum and dad would turn their hands to anything if it helped them realise their goal of owning their own few acres. They had 40 milkers, started a milk round, had turkeys in a shed at Christmas, Xmas trees, sucklers, a builder renting a yard and the wrestling promoters storing their rings in the barn. an old boy quietly renting a corner for his caravan, and holiday makers in a converted cowshed/bungalow. They got on a scheme with FMC rearing a few piglets on skimmed milk, and got a subsidy. It all went into the same pot on the principle that when one thing was down, something else would be up.
Looking back, I think there was a bit of a feeling that they weren't "proper farmers" in the traditional sense, but with hindsight I think that flexibility was the key.
My plan has always been to reach 63, then spend a couple of years winding down and sorting things out before my pension kicks in, with a bit more from the state when I reach 67. 63 is now just 2 years away and the hardest thing is actually setting the plan in motion as things roll along on their own after 40+ years, and mind and body are not yet in synch. I put the whole lot into HLS 15 years ago and it suited me very well as a one man band, as I wasn't on the treadmill and also took the income from the old covered yards. My landlord took back 100 acres of grazing 5 years ago for a scheme which caused much anxiety, but in practice it hasn't really been the problem I imagined and just meant reducing the sucklers which I wouldn't have done unless I was pushed but was a good thing as my body has started complaining. I put all my surplus from HLS into our buildings and decent small scale kit, handling equipment, etc, thinking it would have to last after the payments stopped and would also provide a job in retirement doing paddocks. I don't want to get into major new enterprises but I just hope I can squeeze by for a couple of years as planned, reducing the cows in a controlled manner and not having to dip into my investments to get by.

 

[No wot]

Never ! One generation has to sort this sh!t out for the future , i feel angry previous generations didnt as i see subsidy as the worst thing thats ever happend to farming , so let be us the ones that sort it easily get rid of it for a better future .

You're absolutely right but uk ag still needs Government policy to reflect the importance of domestic food production sadly that isn't on their radar for the foreseeable future until they are prepared to favour home food production subsidies will be important to most farms as they aren't able to compete with imports produced significantly cheaper through less legislation , less environmental concerns and less welfare standards ,

 

[Barleymow]

Everyone must have got a lot more BPS than me.
Because it's hardly life changing amounts of money, and hasn't kept up with farm prices and inflation, so just looks like peanuts now

Bps didn't even pay my tax bill last year

 

[Bossfarmer]

I dont think they will or they would have done already its a mindset thing

its does happen, lot more competition for farm shops now harder for new ones to compete and payback time is longer when energy/staff costs taken into account, chicken diversifications were hammered with rising input costs last year which will have affected their long term payback goals, interest rate increase too, tariffs on renewables cut, tax rules changed on buy to lets.....wheres the big money diversification these days? and is it too at risk to any of these factors in the future?

 

[4course]

its does happen, lot more competition for farm shops now harder for new ones to compete and payback time is longer when energy/staff costs taken into account, chicken diversifications were hammered with rising input costs last year which will have affected their long term payback goals, interest rate increase too, tariffs on renewables cut, tax rules changed on buy to lets.....wheres the big money diversification these days? and is it too at risk to any of these factors in the future?

I tend to agree but look at the post above 262 none of these added income streams will have cost a lot in capital to set up and get running but chances are they will have been done over the last few years i.e foresight and an open mind being the key probably too late for others to join in now . How many times do/did we hear the refrain im not having other folk around the farm, many could do simple things rather than denigrate those embracing diversifications , or the talk hes not a proper farmer, basically its just a case of using the assets available to earn a living and a good one

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I tend to agree but look at the post above 262 none of these added income streams will have cost a lot in capital to set up and get running but chances are they will have been done over the last few years i.e foresight and an open mind being the key probably too late for others to join in now . How many times do/did we hear the refrain im not having other folk around the farm, many could do simple things rather than denigrate those embracing diversifications , or the talk hes not a proper farmer, basically its just a case of using the assets available to earn a living and a good one

I don't think anyone is denigrating people who diversify. In fact I think everyone considers a sensible and obvious thing to do.
The only criticism that I see is if you use profits from a non-farming business to continue a loss-making farm business. Or vice versa.
I mean, does anyone use their farm profits to run a garage to provide people with below cost repairs because they like working with spanners?

 

[Henarar]

I mean, does anyone use their farm profits to run a garage to provide people with below cost repairs because they like working with spanners?

yep
well not run a garage but I have been known to do below cost repairs for folk funded by the farm cos the farm bought all the kit to do it, the motivation is "cos I can" spose I will have all the mechanics and welders after me now for doing them out of work,
don't give a feck anyway.
yep you get farmers who subsidise there farming with outside money look at some of the pedigree breeders, you get farmers kids going out contracting with dads kit taking work from contractors, all get moaned about on here.
such is life, best not to worry to much what someone else is up to.

 

[4course]

I don't think anyone is denigrating people who diversify. In fact I think everyone considers a sensible and obvious thing to do.
The only criticise that I see is if you use profits from a non-farming business to continue a loss-making farm business. Or vice versa.
I mean, does anyone use their farm profits to run a garage to provide people with below cost repairs because they like working with spanners?

As someone who has various diversifications I can assure you folk have done , mindst the last couple of years its changing to " we should have done that," .

 

[farmerfred86]

Whoever has voted to diversify you do realise your doing the governments job for them.

If they want cheap food then it’s their job to subsidise it. Not the farmers.

Diversifying to carry on farming is nothing short of stupidity.

And yet its becoming the norm... Many want to keep farming, along with the benefits it can bring such as IHT relief.