Farm subsidies must be earned.......

[banjo]

I don't really agree.
Even in my very rural constituency farmers and those involved in agriculture form a tiny minority of the electorate and all towns and villages grow year on year.
Also after brexit we will still be following EU rules. Fancy exporting lamb to the continent, better follow the daft rules on tagging then. Etc.

That's democracy I'm afraid, the people living in the countryside see what's happening to farming, they arnt daft.
It's been so bad in the uk regarding a farming policy it's ridiculous, no one in farming knows what it is, not a clue, at least after the war they decided to up production and drain and that sort of thing, it was a decision, now what is it?
Is it to look after the land, because if it is after 20 years it's in a worse state than before and the sandle wearers have been in charge all that time!
Every party should have a farming policy and when I was younger they did, not during the last 20 years has there even been a discussion on the subject. It's been ignored completely and it's been left to the eu who can't even decide which building to work from perminantly!
I've always believed the public knows best and in the end even when left wing or right wing governments get in they get chucked out when they go to far, the politicians don't even know they have gone to far, the public does!

 

[Bossfarmer]

Subsides tend to keep production stable, without subs there would not be much trad beef about at present day prices.
A lot of the sub ends up off farm inthe hands of supermarkets and land owners


Part of VAT funds the EU if my memory serves, so not sub then VAT bill will reduce? Hence my debating point. And would it be more targeted to give the 30% the £46 to spend on food rather than the equally cackhanded method now of giving it to farmers where a proportion gets given to landowners such as the Chatsworth Estate, the Duke of Buccleagh etc etc and is also capitalised into land values. Your thoughts?

VAT was introduced to provide funds to keep Europe self sufficient in food and provide the rural people with an income roughly equivalent to the urbanites,
Over the years it has been eroded to fund all sorts of vanity projects unrelated to ag, For instance the ring road around Tenerife.
Brexitis going to cause immense upheaval in this now as we are 1 of the 2 main net contributors to this fund now.
As to paying the money direct to consumers, we all know where that would end up[/QUOTE]


Yes, we probably can surmise where it would end up given direct to consumers. But giving it to farmers is equally blunderbuss in a way. We talk about Cost of production and stability but we see money ending up for example with Sheik Mahomood at Newmarket, and in the coffers of large aristocratic landowners through rents, and why not as they are in effect entitled as the next man. But given that even I can see why the ordinary man on the Clapham omnibus might consider it odd that one of the richest men on the world picks up £400k annually. Hey ho.[/QUOTE]
these multi millionaires/billionaires prob pay more tax than they get back in subsidy so why are people stupid enough to keep listing them??

 

[joe soapy]

I bet some of the inspectors have tales to tell, would be interesting to read some of them.
Can remember a few from the past, was a local hill farmer near here, inspectors turned up during a window of good weather at hay time,
they were given a map of farm scattered over a few parishes, use of land rover and a few bags of nuts and told to get on with it
Think they had a good fortnight on that job.
we had one for the cows, , [ you have to understand that i seem to have a way of stating the facts in a way that sounds totally unbelievable ]
anyway, explained it probably would not be safe because the flags were up on the range, he had not heard that excuse before.
Had a snap sheep count,,was in the last week when targets had to be met, blazing hot day, a supersize lady doing the count and sheep scattered over 4000 acres of hill.
amazingly she was able to do an exact count with binoculars.
On another occassion all was going well untill the movement book was called for, now, at that time i had outsourced the manegement of the sheep and it was before mobile phones were generally about, after a few abortive attempts to track it down a message came to go to a house 15 miles away, find key, and go into office and book would be a particular drawer.
the inspector was getting a bit twitichy by then[ it was soon after the cornish farmer had tried to drown a ministry vet in the slurry pit] and it was getting on for 7pm
anyway, we found book , all immaculate in copperplate hand writing and fully up to date

 

[thesilentone]

There is no shortage of food. The Wall Street traders and commodity markets can get orgasmic over a heat wave in Russia, once again the reality is completely different.

We ALL know how the Supermarkets have manipulated the supply chain, to not only guarantee supply, to ensure a healthy surplus. This surplus will end up as a 2f1 deal, or alternatively getting dumped. If you do not believe this, you are deluded !!!

The problem of over-supply is a World issue not only the EU or UK, please spend some time here: https://www.tristramstuart.co.uk/

So, lets get back on topic. Currently we are paying agriculture a wage (via the BPS Scheme) to produce for no-profit, unless you have big volumes or are niche. This is EU wide and acts as a great leveller for the Politicians, the price on the shelf is dictated by the Supermarkets, and finally the whole pricing system is tested by the Housewife -she dictates, she has the power of purchase.

Over the years, subs have become a main stay that is holding us all back, it's Dads pension, or the business drawings. Some will have been re-invested, in General it has been badly distributed (and still is) with the 80/20 rule applying.

Start to draw up a plan of the future, what do we need to secure the Industry, what do our Children require to prosper, who are today's stakeholders, what do they require ? A much fairer system awaits, as long as the 20% don't buy the Politicians !!

 

[Farmer Roy]

There is no shortage of food. The Wall Street traders and commodity markets can get orgasmic over a heat wave in Russia, once again the reality is completely different.

We ALL know how the Supermarkets have manipulated the supply chain, to not only guarantee supply, to ensure a healthy surplus. This surplus will end up as a 2f1 deal, or alternatively getting dumped. If you do not believe this, you are deluded !!!

The problem of over-supply is a World issue not only the EU or UK, please spend some time here: https://www.tristramstuart.co.uk/

So, lets get back on topic. Currently we are paying agriculture a wage (via the BPS Scheme) to produce for no-profit, unless you have big volumes or are niche. This is EU wide and acts as a great leveller for the Politicians, the price on the shelf is dictated by the Supermarkets, and finally the whole pricing system is tested by the Housewife -she dictates, she has the power of purchase.

Over the years, subs have become a main stay that is holding us all back, it's Dads pension, or the business drawings. Some will have been re-invested, in General it has been badly distributed (and still is) with the 80/20 rule applying.

Start to draw up a plan of the future, what do we need to secure the Industry, what do our Children require to prosper, who are today's stakeholders, what do they require ? A much fairer system awaits, as long as the 20% don't buy the Politicians !!

 

[glasshouse]

There is no shortage of food. The Wall Street traders and commodity markets can get orgasmic over a heat wave in Russia, once again the reality is completely different.

We ALL know how the Supermarkets have manipulated the supply chain, to not only guarantee supply, to ensure a healthy surplus. This surplus will end up as a 2f1 deal, or alternatively getting dumped. If you do not believe this, you are deluded !!!

The problem of over-supply is a World issue not only the EU or UK, please spend some time here: https://www.tristramstuart.co.uk/

So, lets get back on topic. Currently we are paying agriculture a wage (via the BPS Scheme) to produce for no-profit, unless you have big volumes or are niche. This is EU wide and acts as a great leveller for the Politicians, the price on the shelf is dictated by the Supermarkets, and finally the whole pricing system is tested by the Housewife -she dictates, she has the power of purchase.

Over the years, subs have become a main stay that is holding us all back, it's Dads pension, or the business drawings. Some will have been re-invested, in General it has been badly distributed (and still is) with the 80/20 rule applying.

Start to draw up a plan of the future, what do we need to secure the Industry, what do our Children require to prosper, who are today's stakeholders, what do they require ? A much fairer system awaits, as long as the 20% don't buy the Politicians !!

The supermarkets and the 20% aleady have the politicians bought.

 

[thesilentone]

Some years ago (not sure if it still apply's). Planning conditions for a Supermarket in France dictated that a % of the goods must be supplied within x miles (if available)

Personally I thought this was a great idea, however it has it's challenges. Dictating the market is dangerous, however how many Rural Areas pay through the nose for services due to Monopoly (like public transport)?

The Government love the words ' Circular Economy ' how many buy into this and adopt it ? (knowingly) What about the future, goods, services, materials, food, energy, waste ?

At the moment ' food miles ' and ' traceability ' appear to be nothing but words.

Are we wasting less ? Do we consider the environment in our decisions ? Are we putting back ?

In-keeping with the Political speak, time for some ' Blue Sky ' thinking.

Looking at the time it's also time for some Pork Pie - eating

 

[Hilly]

Over the last ten yrs i have tried unsuccessfully to buy a run down grazing farm with some arable land. I viewd about ten.
These type of farms are in demand by the forestry commission and private forestry investors.
Almost every one has been planted to trees now.

Just out bid them, they dont go much over 3k acre.

Does that include our competitors in Europe.

yes or a tarrif.

 

[glasshouse]

Just out bid them, they dont go much over 3k acre.

yes or a tarrif.

The point is that govt cash for forestry is doubling the price of such land from £1500 to £3000 per acre, putting it out of reach of farmers

 

[Hilly]

The point is that govt cash for forestry is doubling the price of such land from £1500 to £3000 per acre, putting it out of reach of farmers

Aye I know it's a bugger, forestry is winning the war think I might train to drive a harvester 1k a week to be earned without to much problem

 

[renewablejohn]

Think the Norwegian farmers are heading in the right direction if we could persuade Gove a similar system instead of blanket subs based on land area.

https://www.thelocal.no/20160401/food-price-gap-between-norway-and-eu-increases

 

[thesilentone]

You may find this interesting, the Norwegians certainly have the ability to pay !https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Oh, and it's £10.00 a Beer (small bottle) (7.45kr =1euro)

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Norway

 

[renewablejohn]

You may find this interesting, the Norwegians certainly have the ability to pay !https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Oh, and it's £10.00 a Beer (small bottle) (7.45kr =1euro)

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Norway

The map really shows the disparity of income between the North and South of the EU. No wonder there is so much migration pressure.
As for price of beer if it stops the binge drinking in the UK I am all for it.

 

[Steevo]

You may find this interesting, the Norwegians certainly have the ability to pay !https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Oh, and it's £10.00 a Beer (small bottle) (7.45kr =1euro)

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Norway

The map really shows the disparity of income between the North and South of the EU. No wonder there is so much migration pressure.
As for price of beer if it stops the binge drinking in the UK I am all for it.

"Going to the pub" would be cheaper if combined with a holiday at that rate!