Fert on old permanant pasture

[crazy_bull]

So I expect I will get a raft of differing opinions, but obviously an old ley is not going to respond to fert as well as a fresh modern ley.

Anyone got an idea on the point at which it is not economic to spin more fert on, i.e. what's the optimum rate kg/ha for an old pasture?

thinking of a 24.8.8 +8S

want to perk it up a bit and increase stocking rate.

C B

 

[milkloss]

What do you think the indices are likely to be based on previous treatment? Maybe the lack of p and k will hold it back despite the N.

 

[AndrewM]

Response of an old pasture to applied nitrogen under steady-state continuous grazing

"The response of an old, unimproved mixed-species pasture to fertilizer nitrogen was examined under 4-weekly cutting or continuous grazing with young beef cattle. Five N fertilizer rates were applied: zero, 100, 200, 400 or 800 kg/ha per year. The investigation was carried out in Devon, on a heavy clay soil in a region of high winter rainfall in 1984, 1985 and 1986.

Annual total herbage dry-matter (DM) production, live weight gain (LWG) and utilized metabolizable energy (UME) output all increased with successive increments of fertilizer N up to 400 kg N/ha per year. Under 4-weekly cutting, the response per kg applied N fell below 10 kg DM at an application rate of 268 kg N/ha per year, giving a yield of 10·6 t/ha per year. Under grazing, the overall response during the grazing season per kg applied N fell below 300 kg live weight carried per ha at a fertilizer rate of 248 kg/ha per year, giving a UME output of 78 GJ/ha over the grazing season. High available soil N contributed to the high productivity from these swards. Animal output at moderate (200 kg N/ha per year) N application rates did not appear to be constrained by the initial botanical composition of this unimproved sward. Repeated high N applications in the 400 kg N/ha per year treatment reduced output in 1986 under grazing and cutting, compared with treatments which had received the lower N applications.

The DM yield from the 4-weekly cutting study gave a satisfactory prediction of UME output from this pasture. Climatic conditions, particularly high rainfall, appeared to be an important constraint on animal performance at pasture.

The high UME output achieved from this pasture at 200 kg applied N/ha was well above the average UME for commercial farms."

• J. R. B. Tallowin (a1), F. W. Kirkham (a1), S. K. E. Brookman (a1) and M. Patefield (a2)
• • https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021859600075110
  • Published online: 01 March 2009

 

[crazy_bull]

What do you think the indices are likely to be based on previous treatment? Maybe the lack of p and k will hold it back despite the N.

awaiting PK results, but yes fair point

C B

 

[Derrick Hughes]

2 to 3 cwt acre , but make sure its well grazed now if its for hay

 

[betweenthelines]

I thought the more N you chuck on the more you encourage N responsive species

 

[milkloss]

I thought the more N you chuck on the more you encourage N responsive species

I would agree but those grasses will more likely suffer with a lack of p and k from experience so I guess it’s swings and roundabouts.

 

[crazy_bull]

I would agree but those grasses will more likely suffer with a lack of p and k from experience so I guess it’s swings and roundabouts.

The results are in.....


without even looking at the field names, just the results you can guess the order of easiest to get to from the yard for muck spreading!!


C B

 

[bobk]

View attachment 645188

The results are in.....


without even looking at the field names, just the results you can guess the order of easiest to get to from the yard for muck spreading!!


C B

Wish my fields were that fertile .

 

[milkloss]

Not bad at all are they apart from behind the wood? I reckon good feeding and regular grazing will see you well. It’ll challenge the rough grasses and encourage what you want to grow.

 

[Frodo]

Response of an old pasture to applied nitrogen under steady-state continuous grazing

"The response of an old, unimproved mixed-species pasture to fertilizer nitrogen was examined under 4-weekly cutting or continuous grazing with young beef cattle. Five N fertilizer rates were applied: zero, 100, 200, 400 or 800 kg/ha per year. The investigation was carried out in Devon, on a heavy clay soil in a region of high winter rainfall in 1984, 1985 and 1986.

Annual total herbage dry-matter (DM) production, live weight gain (LWG) and utilized metabolizable energy (UME) output all increased with successive increments of fertilizer N up to 400 kg N/ha per year. Under 4-weekly cutting, the response per kg applied N fell below 10 kg DM at an application rate of 268 kg N/ha per year, giving a yield of 10·6 t/ha per year. Under grazing, the overall response during the grazing season per kg applied N fell below 300 kg live weight carried per ha at a fertilizer rate of 248 kg/ha per year, giving a UME output of 78 GJ/ha over the grazing season. High available soil N contributed to the high productivity from these swards. Animal output at moderate (200 kg N/ha per year) N application rates did not appear to be constrained by the initial botanical composition of this unimproved sward. Repeated high N applications in the 400 kg N/ha per year treatment reduced output in 1986 under grazing and cutting, compared with treatments which had received the lower N applications.

The DM yield from the 4-weekly cutting study gave a satisfactory prediction of UME output from this pasture. Climatic conditions, particularly high rainfall, appeared to be an important constraint on animal performance at pasture.

The high UME output achieved from this pasture at 200 kg applied N/ha was well above the average UME for commercial farms."

• J. R. B. Tallowin (a1), F. W. Kirkham (a1), S. K. E. Brookman (a1) and M. Patefield (a2)
• • https://doi.org/10.1017/S0021859600075110
  • Published online: 01 March 2009

That's a lot of Nitrogen.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

View attachment 645188

The results are in.....


without even looking at the field names, just the results you can guess the order of easiest to get to from the yard for muck spreading!!


C B

Bloody hell, I wish I had those sorts of indices.
I would put a load of Clover seed on that and not worry about the N, have a little patience and away you go!

If the Clover is short I would guess it is because the ground is too fertile.

 

[crazy_bull]

I plan to establish some clover, but rather short of grass at the moment, and the way the spring is panning out I think I need to give it a help.

120kg/ha of 24.8.8 +8S was my plan, then square off round the back of the wood with a dose of P-Grow (0.23.0) when it dries up, or even in the autumn.

We inherited a heavy thistle burden so planning on giving the place another dose of thistle this spring and then after that try and get some clover going.

C B

 

[neilo]

Even if it has clover in it, I would give it a bit in early Spring (now normally) to get an early bite, and another bit in the Autumn to extend the shoulders of the season. My Glastir 'low input' ground is all old parkland pp and is limited to 50 kg N/ha per year, which is about what I was putting on anyway, split in half as above. I have a need for grass early on, and later in the Autumn, the rest of the time, I generally have too much, and no need of much hay/silage on my system.

My agronomist is adamant that DAP is an even better bet to encourage an early bite, at about 1cwt/ac, even on old pp but I couldn't get any to try in time this year.

Is the grass destined for just grazing? If it is, I wouldn't put more than a very small maintenance P&K dressing, as your offtake is minimal. I'd think the fert you mentioned would be ideal for the job, if that's the case, but a lot more K if you taking a crop off obviously.

 

[crazy_bull]

Even if it has clover in it, I would give it a bit in early Spring (now normally) to get an early bite, and another bit in the Autumn to extend the shoulders of the season. My Glastir 'low input' ground is all old parkland pp and is limited to 50 kg N/ha per year, which is about what I was putting on anyway, split in half as above. I have a need for grass early on, and later in the Autumn, the rest of the time, I generally have too much, and no need of much hay/silage on my system.

My agronomist is adamant that DAP is an even better bet to encourage an early bite, at about 1cwt/ac, even on old pp but I couldn't get any to try in time this year.

Is the grass destined for just grazing? If it is, I wouldn't put more than a very small maintenance P&K dressing, as your offtake is minimal. I'd think the fert you mentioned would be ideal for the job, if that's the case, but a lot more K if you taking a crop off obviously.

Just grazing, ewes and lambs.

C B

 

[dannewhouse]

if you input what cropping you will do with the field you get more crop specific fert reccomendations, my indices are quite like yours and my reccomendations are N and S only for the majority of my land (admitted its for wheat/barley nor grass)

similar to you Mg mega high, P and K vary according to yard access! S low Ph about right test agin in 4 years ...

 

[tr250]

We put 40kg/ha of N on all ours in spring and that's it. I believe that to be an economical amount to perk it up without spending too much

 

[dirty harry]

All you need is some cheap dodgy fert ...!!
Dollop the n on, p&k look impressive tho!
You’re idea of 120kg of 24% stuff not worth bothering- with those p&k results I’d just go 2-300kg ha urea in two splits?

 

[crazy_bull]

All you need is some cheap dodgy fert ...!!
Dollop the n on, p&k look impressive tho!
You’re idea of 120kg of 24% stuff not worth bothering- with those p&k results I’d just go 2-300kg ha urea in two splits?

Funnily enough I do know a chap who specialises in dodgy fert

C B