G59 Upgrade - NATIONAL GRID MANDATORY UPGRADE

[Colin Lockwood]

Hi All,

Some of you will already be aware, but National Grid have brought out new regulations that mandate all G59 relays installed before February 2018 need upgrading – this includes solar, AD, wind turbines, CHP, hydro etc – called the Accelerated Loss of Mains Change Program. The program is designed to get all existing sites updated with regards Loss of Mains (LOM) – the main benefit being to reduce the amount of tripping by relaxing settings within the relay.

Currently, there are grants available that approved contractors can apply for. The grant officially expires on 11th August – so not long now. This may be extended, although there is currently no guarantee. The grant covers ALL COSTS of the work, and does not cost you a penny.

So basically, if you have a G59 relay installed before February 2018 (and if you have a wind turbine, AD plant, CHP plant, batteries, hydro, solar etc you most likely will) you must upgrade it. There are grants available which cover all costs, but these run out shortly.

I work for a company called WindCare. Windcare are an approved contractor with District Network Operators (DNO) across the country and are completing this upgrade works on hundreds of sites across the country on all different technology types.

If the above is something you need to do and we can be of assistance please give me a call. 01751472595 / 07891938955 or email [email protected]

Thanks

 

[Bob]

Not all G59 units need upgrading I have 2 installed before 2018 and they work just fine

 

[Exfarmer]

So @Colin Lockwood would you care to expand on your date of August for the completion of the Alom programme?
August, did you forget a few figures? Such as August? August 2022 perhaps?

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Hi @Bob - if you have a G59 relay on renewable energy installed before Feb 2018 it will need upgrading. It’s not about your existing one being broken or not working, it’s new regulations that National Grid have brought in that mean your existing relay needs upgrading. Have a look on the ENA website if you want to check this for yourself or I can point you to the best contact at your DNO if that would help and confirm??

Hi @Exfarmer - it is the grants that currently expire on the 11th August 2020. You are correct that you have until 2022 to become compliant, but after 11th August 2020 there could be no more grants available and you have to pay for the works instead. They may extend the grants, but no guarantees at the moment.

if I can be of any more help, please let me know.

 

[Bob]

Hi @Bob - if you have a G59 relay on renewable energy installed before Feb 2018 it will need upgrading. It’s not about your existing one being broken or not working, it’s new regulations that National Grid have brought in that mean your existing relay needs upgrading. Have a look on the ENA website if you want to check this for yourself or I can point you to the best contact at your DNO if that would help and confirm??

Hi @Exfarmer - it is the grants that currently expire on the 11th August 2020. You are correct that you have until 2022 to become compliant, but after 11th August 2020 there could be no more grants available and you have to pay for the works instead. They may extend the grants, but no guarantees at the moment.

if I can be of any more help, please let me know.

 

[Bob]

So you think you can "Upgrade" the Siemens SIPROTEC 7SJ80 G59 unit inside an Enercon Wind Turbine??

 

[Exfarmer]

Just spoken to my contact, he was a little surprised to here of this cut off date! Offered to do the work for nothing if it is the case.
we had been hoping to replace our relays , but have been waiting months for UKPN to confirm the position regarding witness tests.

 

[Colin Lockwood]

So you think you can "Upgrade" the Siemens SIPROTEC 7SJ80 G59 unit inside an Enercon Wind Turbine??

Hi Bob
Yes, you can upgrade this relay by disabling the LoM settings from within it. The Siemens relays in the Enercons we have done have all have very low RoCoF settings which are the worst offenders as far as National Grid are concerned. We can check these settings on the relay itself or if you had the original G59 paperwork. On the smaller Enercons (E33) the relay can be installed on the High Voltage side which is a bit more involved.

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Just spoken to my contact, he was a little surprised to here of this cut off date! Offered to do the work for nothing if it is the case.
we had been hoping to replace our relays , but have been waiting months for UKPN to confirm the position regarding witness tests.

Hi. Yes the 11th August 2020 is currently when the grants run out - see image attached. They may extend this, but no confirmation yet

In terms of replacing relays, there are individual cases/relays, but generally wind/solar (unless DFIG wind which tends to be big wind) only qualify for a LoM disablement, whereas AD/CHP etc qualify for a relay replacement. This is to do with if they are async. or sync. generators.

UKPN would definitely witness test a relay replacement, but case by case for disablements/setting change. The disablement we are doing with them next week don’t require witnessing for example. If you are an approved contractor with UKPN then you don’t need witnessing for either replacement or disablement.

The team down there are pretty good - email [email protected]

If you want me to a take a look over and advise then email me across your site details (generator type, G59 relay etc) and I can take a look. If you have someone else you want to use that’s fine, but I would be happy to check over.
[email protected]

 

[Exfarmer]

Hi. Yes the 11th August 2020 is currently when the grants run out - see image attached. They may extend this, but no confirmation yet

In terms of replacing relays, there are individual cases/relays, but generally wind/solar (unless DFIG wind which tends to be big wind) only qualify for a LoM disablement, whereas AD/CHP etc qualify for a relay replacement. This is to do with if they are async. or sync. generators.

UKPN would definitely witness test a relay replacement, but case by case for disablements/setting change. The disablement we are doing with them next week don’t require witnessing for example. If you are an approved contractor with UKPN then you don’t need witnessing for either replacement or disablement.

The team down there are pretty good - email [email protected]

If you want me to a take a look over and advise then email me across your site details (generator type, G59 relay etc) and I can take a look. If you have someone else you want to use that’s fine, but I would be happy to check over.
[email protected]

We are speaking with Harriet, our situation is that we can just disable the settings, but I would sooner go wih a new relay. Our contractor is approved , but cannot get confirmation of a few simple details.
thanks

 

[rollestonpark]

From my point of view I don't really get the upgrade thing...
Reason is I have a CHP and solar that was before the date mentioned with G59s etc.
So I spoke to my local Western Power office and they check my file. I have in writing that no upgrade is necessary, carry on as you are.

Has anyone else checked with their DNO about the need to change it?

 

[Colin Lockwood]

We are speaking with Harriet, our situation is that we can just disable the settings, but I would sooner go with a new relay. Our contractor is approved , but cannot get confirmation of a few simple details.
thanks

Hi. If you can only get a grant for disabling, you can still change the relay, but can only apply for the disablement grant. Prior to February this year you could get paid for a relay replacement, but they reduced the grants from 1st February for wind/solar. Disabling the LoM is quite fine for wind/solar as they are asynchronous generators and you still have voltage and frequency protection in the relay which protect in case of a Loss of Mains event. You wouldn't disable if you had CHP as they are synchronous generators which are more of an issue.

I'm sure they are, but make sure your contact is approved as far as the ALoMCP is concerned. Some DNOs are taking into account previously approved contractors, but some aren't.

If you want to let me know what issues you are having i can try and assist if you like? We have several hundred applications so have seen quite a lot of different site setups and permutations!

 

[Colin Lockwood]

From my point of view I don't really get the upgrade thing...
Reason is I have a CHP and solar that was before the date mentioned with G59s etc.
So I spoke to my local Western Power office and they check my file. I have in writing that no upgrade is necessary, carry on as you are.

Has anyone else checked with their DNO about the need to change it?

Hi there. That is a strange one! There may well be a very specific reason for this, but we have done several hundred applications, and if the site has a G59 relay installed before February 2018 then it is fairly cut and dry and I haven't come across any that are exempt.

I would recommend you contact the actual G59 ALoMCP team at WPD. Speak to Simon Apps - [email protected]. Alternatively, if you want to send me your MPAN and site details i can email them on your behalf to check as we have some pretty good contacts there? [email protected].

Given there are grants available that won't cost you anything to complete this upgrade, i wouldn't take the local WPD office's word for it and double check with WPD G59 team. We have had 1 site where WPD G59 team advised something (two contractors applying on the same MPAN - one for the solar, one for the CHP was ok), the grant was approved, but then National Grid overruled them and said one MPAN, one application. It didn't matter for this site, as the original applications were retracted and a new application was put in this current window with grants still available. However, with the grants possibly running out on 11th August, you could end up having to do the work down the line with no grants left.

 

[Bob]

What is the value of the grant for each mpan??

 

[matthew]

From my point of view I don't really get the upgrade thing...
Reason is I have a CHP and solar that was before the date mentioned with G59s etc.
So I spoke to my local Western Power office and they check my file. I have in writing that no upgrade is necessary, carry on as you are.

Has anyone else checked with their DNO about the need to change it?

I checked with our installer this morning,
For solar it is the ground mounts which may be affected (he said) and our roof mounted, is not. The thingamajig which needs replacing is in our inverters anyway. And DNOs are not replacing these.
He’s backed up with grant work on the big ground mounted arrays.

 

[Exfarmer]

I checked with our installer this morning,
For solar it is the ground mounts which may be affected (he said) and our roof mounted, is not. The thingamajig which needs replacing is in our inverters anyway. And DNOs are not replacing these.
He’s backed up with grant work on the big ground mounted arrays.

I think any install under 50kw did not require a seperate G59 . All the inverters have a g59 switch in them to cut out production in the event of power outage and originally it looked as every one needed upgrading. With 20 odd inverters I thought I had hit the jackpot.
however common sense reigned when the true implication set in at the National grid and all those with no separate relays were excluded

 

[matthew]

I think any install under 50kw did not require a seperate G59 . All the inverters have a g59 switch in them to cut out production in the event of power outage and originally it looked as every one needed upgrading. With 20 odd inverters I thought I had hit the jackpot.
however common sense reigned when the true implication set in at the National grid and all those with no separate relays were excluded

Thanks. 49.9 kw on the roofs.

 

[Colin Lockwood]

Thanks. 49.9 kw on the roofs.

Hi Matthew - Yes, Exfarmer is about right! Any that use the inverters for G59 protection don't need upgrading (99.99% of the time - there are weird/wonderful inverter manufacturers that might need looking at, but these are very rare and we've not come across them - there is a list on the ENA website if you want to check yours, but fairly safe to assume its ok). The reason being, inverters don't use Loss of Mains Protection which is solely what this program looks at.

The only solar projects that needs upgrading is those that has a separate G59 relay - this can be ground mount or roof mount, but generally its the larger systems that have them. This will normally be placed near where the inverters come back to - somewhere near your main breaker and FiT meters.

 

[matthew]

Hi Matthew - Yes, Exfarmer is about right! Any that use the inverters for G59 protection don't need upgrading (99.99% of the time - there are weird/wonderful inverter manufacturers that might need looking at, but these are very rare and we've not come across them - there is a list on the ENA website if you want to check yours, but fairly safe to assume its ok). The reason being, inverters don't use Loss of Mains Protection which is solely what this program looks at.

The only solar projects that needs upgrading is those that has a separate G59 relay - this can be ground mount or roof mount, but generally its the larger systems that have them. This will normally be placed near where the inverters come back to - somewhere near your main breaker and FiT meters.

Thanks. That's what I understood from our installer.

 

[sjt01]

The reason being, inverters don't use Loss of Mains Protection which is solely what this program looks at.

If the inverters do not have loss of mains protection, do they try to power the grid when the incoming mains fails? Surely every device capable of export must have some type of loss of mains protection?