G59 Upgrade??

[fermerboy]

I see on an Advert along the bottom of this site something about a G59 relay upgrade.
https://www.omnihp.co.uk/services/accelerated-loss-of-mains-change-programme
They claim on there that a G59 relay should be upgraded to a G99 system.

I understand the need for a G59 and every renewable system connected to the grid has it but its news to me.

I have never heard of this from either my installer/service guys or my electricity supplier.
Anybody know about this?

 

[sjt01]

Not heard of it. Any changes to our G59 relay would have to be tested by a specialist and witnessed by our DNO. A half day fee for both of them would not be cheap, and I do not see what might be gained. The DNO witnessed test shows the equipment is safe to connect to the grid, and unless they change their terms of connection there is no need to change.

 

[Exfarmer]

I have just received a very different email , but it does seem to confirm that this requirement is real.
Apparently it is to to with the big shut down the other week, and they are going to make things less sensitive , hoping that the grid can maintain power better.
I would guess the best bet is to contact your regular team for more info.
I understand the work is scheduled over the next 3 years so it is nothing urgent and better still not to cost the generator anything.

 

[sjt01]

I have just received a very different email , but it does seem to confirm that this requirement is real.
Apparently it is to to with the big shut down the other week, and they are going to make things less sensitive , hoping that the grid can maintain power better.
I would guess the best bet is to contact your regular team for more info.
I understand the work is scheduled over the next 3 years so it is nothing urgent and better still not to cost the generator anything.

Anything to make our trip less sensitive would be good. The grid only needs to blink for a few milliseconds and we have to restart the CHP

 

[sjt01]

See https://33kv.com/news/the-impact-of-moving-from-g59-to-g99/
The important bit
What are the requirements for the plant?
Any new generation connected after 27th April that has not already been purchased and notified to the DNOP by 17th November must be G99 compliant.
An existing site that has significant changes or any expansion may, subject to DNO approval, also have to be G99 compliant.
It is not clear if all the Distributed Generation (DG) plant currently in use, such as inverters and synchronous generators, would be able to support the new requirements. Fault ride through capability, the need to operate at power factor of 0.95 lagging and leading will cause many existing generators to fail the requirements for G99. The ability to operate at 95% and 105% of voltage and to be able to dynamically adjust output with rise and fall of frequency can be onerous.

 

[Princess Pooper]

yeah we've had an email too. Apparently we need to register and the cost is covered by the DNOs as long as we are registered by the deadline. I think there's a couple of years to actually get it done then. We have contacted our turbine maintenance company to see if they are covering this for us.

 

[Courier]

Yep, I have also just had a similar email, but from the successor company to those who did our initial planning and then went awkward and pulled out of the project meaning that we didn't get the second turbine installed ( we bought our turbine direct from the manufacturers and project managed the build ourselves) - I really don't want to let them benefit from this, they admit that they would be getting a sub-contractor in to do the work. Good to see that there is no desperate rush so I will contact the folk who did the HV work myself.

 

[akaPABLO01]

This is not needed on existing g59 systems.

if you are planning a generation grid tied system then you have to install g99 compliant or g98 systems.

if you have a g59 leave it unless you have a substation.

if your g59 is tripping just adjust the parameter until it stops.

 

[sjt01]

This is not needed on existing g59 systems.

if you are planning a generation grid tied system then you have to install g99 compliant or g98 systems.

if you have a g59 leave it unless you have a substation.

if your g59 is tripping just adjust the parameter until it stops.

G59 relays are sealed, or at least ours is, and can only have parameters adjusted in the presence of the DNO and the test guys.

 

[akaPABLO01]

Just open up the panel board. Go to the relay display. Navigate to the voltage parameters and plus 1. If it still trips, plus 1.

the relay should be accessible as you have to reset it if it trips.

 

[sjt01]

Just open up the panel board. Go to the relay display. Navigate to the voltage parameters and plus 1. If it still trips, plus 1.

the relay should be accessible as you have to reset it if it trips.

The voltage parameters are locked with a password which is held by the DNO/test team. If the relay trips, it takes out the motorised circuit breaker, and that is what needs resetting. Setup is not user accessible.

 

[akaPABLO01]

Since when did the DNO start password protecting YOUR equipment?

I think the guys that built it have pw protected it. Phone them up and get the password.

 

[sjt01]

Here is the commissioning stage with the test guy in the yellow coat, UKPN on the left, and the system designer and the service company on the right. They have a dongle which plugs into the GPU to give access,

Here is the test gear required to make the settings:

And here is the certificate of test. If I was able to alter the settings, I would be liable to the damage to the grid, so I am glad that I cannot do so.

 

[akaPABLO01]

So, what is your point?

 

[Princess Pooper]

So, what is your point?

I think the point is that most of us owning turbines don't want to be dabbling with things we don't understand, especially something as safety critical as this. Given that we're not allowed to generate initially without the observed test then if we go altering things afterwards then that rather makes a nonsense of it all doesn't it?

Our maintenance company has confirmed that they will register us and do the work which entails no cost to ourselves other than any lost generation. If it means we're slightly less sensitive to a local split second utility fault and therefore less shut downs then all good.

 

[sjt01]

So, what is your point?

If I was able to alter the settings, I would be liable to the damage to the grid, so I am glad that I cannot do so.

 

[akaPABLO01]

Jesus wept. Talk about some Dixie swinging slack jaws.
The g59 protects your equipment from the shitty grid condition.

what’s your trip set at?

 

[Bob]

Jesus wept. Talk about some Dixie swinging slack jaws.
The g59 protects your equipment from the shitty grid condition.

what’s your trip set at?

No the G59 protects the DNO side and makes sure you cant generate if there is a fault on grid .

 

[akaPABLO01]

Then why is the generation equipment g59 certified?

 

[Courier]

Then why is the generation equipment g59 certified?

‘Coz otherwise the DNO won’t accept your power ??‍

When there is a grid overload then the DNO trip in the substation is where the protection occurs - we had to persuade them to keep increasing their limit ‘coz it was knocking our turbine off at small overloads . Ours is nominally 200 kWh but I have seen it momentarily putting out almost 250 View attachment 840661