Gatekeeper Help Required

[hughwra]

Hi everything, I've been reading this thread with interest.

We are an agricultural drone company, specialising in field mapping. We now have a prototype system which has RTK receivers built in. We can very accurately and quickly map fields to cm accuracy. The system is also 'weatherproof' which is a bonus. Once the map is processed with software, we can then zoom in, draw the field boundary accurately and also draw on any features such as electricity pylons / ditching etc. We can then export the field boundary in .shp format.

My question is; could anyone talk me through how gatekeeper could then work with the field boundary? - how does it work to set optimum guidance paths or AB lines and tramlines?? I am not so familiar with gatekeeper yet.

Thanks!

 

[hughwra]

*everyONE - not everything - apologies

 

[Steevo]

Hi everything, I've been reading this thread with interest.

We are an agricultural drone company, specialising in field mapping. We now have a prototype system which has RTK receivers built in. We can very accurately and quickly map fields to cm accuracy. The system is also 'weatherproof' which is a bonus. Once the map is processed with software, we can then zoom in, draw the field boundary accurately and also draw on any features such as electricity pylons / ditching etc. We can then export the field boundary in .shp format.

My question is; could anyone talk me through how gatekeeper could then work with the field boundary? - how does it work to set optimum guidance paths or AB lines and tramlines?? I am not so familiar with gatekeeper yet.

Thanks!

It might be better to start a new thread on this specifically for your question?

I'm sure plenty on here could help.

Who are your customers currently please? Farmers, utilities etc?

 

[hughwra]

It might be better to start a new thread on this specifically for your question?

I'm sure plenty on here could help.

Who are your customers currently please? Farmers, utilities etc?

Good point - I'll start a new thread. Customers vary, we map for farmers as a service, but mostly we build systems and sell system&training packages, for agronomy companies, research companies and independent agronomists

 

[llamedos]

It might be better to start a new thread on this specifically for your question?

I'm sure plenty on here could help.

Who are your customers currently please? Farmers, utilities etc?

Good point - I'll start a new thread. Customers vary, we map for farmers as a service, but mostly we build systems and sell system&training packages, for agronomy companies, research companies and independent agronomists

I have moved your posts and started a new thread for you, not sure what to title it as, please review, and I can edit it to suit.

Carole

 

[hughwra]

I have moved your posts and started a new thread for you, not sure what to title it as, please review, and I can edit it to suit.

Carole

Thank you Carole

 

[Northern farmer]

While waiting for proper comments, may I ask why are you considering Gatekeeper only? I'd like to see a more affordable approach (cannot justify the cost of Gatekeeper or similar applications).

If you can produce a shape file, most screens can import that file without any external application. Simple guidance lines (A-B) can be handled manually or from a simple file without the need for some "desktop SW".

Would be nice if you could also explain how RTK works on a drone. I mean how much does it help if you know the drone position accurately when a very small error when aiming the camera creates a big error on the field? Don't you anyway need some SW that aligns the photo to correct coordinates?

 

[hughwra]

While waiting for proper comments, may I ask why are you considering Gatekeeper only? I'd like to see a more affordable approach (cannot justify the cost of Gatekeeper or similar applications).

If you can produce a shape file, most screens can import that file without any external application. Simple guidance lines (A-B) can be handled manually or from a simple file without the need for some "desktop SW".

Would be nice if you could also explain how RTK works on a drone. I mean how much does it help if you know the drone position accurately when a very small error when aiming the camera creates a big error on the field? Don't you anyway need some SW that aligns the photo to correct coordinates?

Sure, I was using Gatekeeper as an example really, as I've heard it has the functionality to set optimum guidance / tramlines based on the field boundary and features. But obviously this depends on the accuracy of the boundary shapefile. We use gatekeeper for many functions on our farm and have all of our field boundaries in there already, but I'm not familiar with it personally, yet. Hence asking for the help to set tramlines in the software.

We can indeed import the shapefiles to many (cheaper/free) platforms, but as these farm databases (doesn't have to be gatekeeper) are used for many different functions on the farm, it is nice to integrate this functionality in the same place.

In other threads, users have commented how they use various software to input permanent tramlines or guidance, but they struggle to produce accurate boundary's using GPS in the field. For me it is the other way around...

With drones we can 'map' areas and use processing software to 'stitch' the images and produce an orthomosaic of the field. 'Standard' systems on GPS have a flying positional accuracy of around 2-2.5 m. The software can correct the images for this deviation, but only to a certain extent (10-30 cm ish - subject to variation).

If we want to reliably produce field boundaries/features mapped to 2/3 cm precision - and hence be fully compatible with in-field machinery on RTK, then it would make sense to use RTK on the drone and bring the positional accuracy in-line with this. The processing software then has a very accurate record of where each image was captured in space and can process the data to the high degree of accuracy.

For normal field mapping activities - such as to produce nitrogen recommendations, or to map weed growth/disease etc, we don't require this level of accuracy and woudn't have an RTK system in place. But for boundary mapping it can be very effective.

If I can go back to my original question... can anyone tell me how optimum guidance pathways / permanent tramlines can be input on field boundaries in gatekeeper?

Thanks

 

[Brisel]

Have you approached Farmplan directly?

 

[Clive]

Hi everything, I've been reading this thread with interest.

We are an agricultural drone company, specialising in field mapping. We now have a prototype system which has RTK receivers built in. We can very accurately and quickly map fields to cm accuracy. The system is also 'weatherproof' which is a bonus. Once the map is processed with software, we can then zoom in, draw the field boundary accurately and also draw on any features such as electricity pylons / ditching etc. We can then export the field boundary in .shp format.

My question is; could anyone talk me through how gatekeeper could then work with the field boundary? - how does it work to set optimum guidance paths or AB lines and tramlines?? I am not so familiar with gatekeeper yet.

Thanks!

You have come across google earth yes ?

 

[hughwra]

Have you approached Farmplan directly?

No not yet. Think I might have to!

 

[hughwra]

You have come across google earth yes ?

Yep , use it all the time. The pro version is very useful for a lot of things but not for plotting super accurate field boundaries. Accuracy in GEarth varies wildly and some imagery might not have been updated for months or even years....

 

[Clive]

Yep , use it all the time. The pro version is very useful for a lot of things but not for plotting super accurate field boundaries. Accuracy in GEarth varies wildly and some imagery might not have been updated for months or even years....

Any one with rtk gps on farm will have very accurate boundary maps - there is absolutely no market for supplying that service to farmers

For NVDI satalite images are cheap and available weekly with more than good enough resolution for applications made by machinery that's 24 or 36m wide. SAR is about to replace NDVI as well so I wouldn't invest much in NDVI tech just now

I think your looking for applications for a drone business that don't exist, it's to slow and expensive vs the existing alternatives

 

[hughwra]

Any one with rtk gps on farm will have very accurate boundary maps - there is absolutely no market for supplying that service to farmers

For NVDI satalite images are cheap and available weekly with more than good enough resolution for applications made by machinery that's 24 or 36m wide. SAR is about to replace NDVI as well so I wouldn't invest much in NDVI tech just now

I think your looking for applications for a drone business that don't exist, it's to slow and expensive vs the existing alternatives

I respect your opinion, Clive. But the reason we started looking into this was because these services were being requested by a certain contractor, not because we wanted to fit whatever we could to a drone. I agree though that RTK aerial boundary mapping will be an extremely niche service. Our other application for the RTK system is in inspection - we fit high-zoom cameras to the system and it is able to hold itself in position within cm's in flight - giving a very stable aerial platform for inspection, where the drone cannot fly in close proximity to the subject (think wind farms, buildings, infrastructure, mining etc). The large drone companies wouldn't build these systems if there were no application.

NDVI satellite images are actually more expensive. Not often available weekly, cloud cover can easily push them back currently. And the absolute best resolution is around 3m unless you work for NASA.. In most cases commercial resolutions available are around 10 m I believe. We are working on spot treatment applications which will require resolutions down to 0.5m2. Many machines now have advanced section control capable of utilising data that satellites cannot currently provide. This is progression. Satellite data will improve I am sure of it. But your average agronomist/farmer will not be fully in control of a satellite or able to quickly inspect his shed roof with one after a storm.

NDVI is simply a normalised ratio, an index, a calculation between reflectance data sets. It cannot be 'replaced', it will always show you the same thing and be a useful way to interpret certain reflectance data. The technology collecting the raw data is what can be replaced, and we can move along with it in development.

The applications for these systems definitely exist. I am not sure whether your head is buried in the sand or you work for a satellite company. You are correct in saying it can be too slow, in terms of processing the data, but this is changing quickly. And cost wise, it's economically viable already and getting cheaper and more efficient all the time.

 

[Clive]

I respect your opinion, Clive. But the reason we started looking into this was because these services were being requested by a certain contractor, not because we wanted to fit whatever we could to a drone. I agree though that RTK aerial boundary mapping will be an extremely niche service. Our other application for the RTK system is in inspection - we fit high-zoom cameras to the system and it is able to hold itself in position within cm's in flight - giving a very stable aerial platform for inspection, where the drone cannot fly in close proximity to the subject (think wind farms, buildings, infrastructure, mining etc). The large drone companies wouldn't build these systems if there were no application.

NDVI satellite images are actually more expensive. Not often available weekly, cloud cover can easily push them back currently. And the absolute best resolution is around 3m unless you work for NASA.. In most cases commercial resolutions available are around 10 m I believe. We are working on spot treatment applications which will require resolutions down to 0.5m2. Many machines now have advanced section control capable of utilising data that satellites cannot currently provide. This is progression. Satellite data will improve I am sure of it. But your average agronomist/farmer will not be fully in control of a satellite or able to quickly inspect his shed roof with one after a storm.

NDVI is simply a normalised ratio, an index, a calculation between reflectance data sets. It cannot be 'replaced', it will always show you the same thing and be a useful way to interpret certain reflectance data. The technology collecting the raw data is what can be replaced, and we can move along with it in development.

The applications for these systems definitely exist. I am not sure whether your head is buried in the sand or you work for a satellite company. You are correct in saying it can be too slow, in terms of processing the data, but this is changing quickly. And cost wise, it's economically viable already and getting cheaper and more efficient all the time.

I'm just a farmer and long term user of PF telling you how it is

If you can provide me weekly images of my fields for the price of satalite images I will be amazed - it's really not expensive now., what I pay per year probabaly wouldn't cover your weekly fuel bill to get here even. SAR has no dependence on cloud coverage

There is no advantage in increased resolution 3m is fine when applying at 24m plus, not sure why you can't get your head around that ?

Good luck making money out of it, you're not alone as there must be a half a dozen threads on here from people with drones looking for business providing images in the last 12 months alone, a lot of farmers have their own drones - we are all more than familiar with what combine looks like from above now thanks to go-pro and you-tube which is about the most useful thing most have found to do with them !

My head is certainly not in the sand - drone tech will revolutionise agriculture and I will be first in the Q but it won't be taking pictures it will be for actualy making applications to crops, laser weeding etc and I doubt the drones will be flying due to payload restrictions - certainly interesting times ahead and the death of the tractor is enevitable it seems

Have a search on here for a recent thread re black grass mapping and the results of a recent Nuffield report into the viability

 

[hughwra]

I'm just a farmer and long term user of PF telling you how it is

If you can provide me weekly images of my fields for the price of satalite images I will be amazed - it's really not expensive now., what I pay per year probabaly wouldn't cover your weekly fuel bill to get here even. SAR has no dependence on cloud coverage

There is no advantage in increased resolution 3m is fine when applying at 24m plus, not sure why you can't get your head around that ?

Good luck making money out of it, you're not alone as there must be a half a dozen threads on here from people with drones looking for business providing images in the last 12 months alone, a lot of farmers have their own drones - we are all more than familiar with what combine looks like from above now thanks to go-pro and you-tube which is about the most useful thing most have found to do with them !

My head is certainly not in the sand - drone tech will revolutionise agriculture and I will be first in the Q but it won't be taking pictures it will be for actualy making applications to crops, laser weeding etc and I doubt the drones will be flying due to payload restrictions - certainly interesting times ahead and the death of the tractor is enevitable it seems

Have a search on here for a recent thread re black grass mapping and the results of a recent Nuffield report into the viability

Clive, fair enough. Its surprising you are so skeptical of the tech though, given you think ground robots will replace tractors etc. You are actually the first person I have heard from who doesn't think this technology has a place in agriculture.

I agree eventually automated ground machinery will also have a big place, but they will rely heavily on data for large areas. This is where drones and sat's come in. The best sat data at 3m resolution and produced even weekly isn't sufficient. As drone tech is already collecting better data and costs are coming down, I believe drone tech will out accelerate sat data capability. I don't think it will be that long before we have automated drone systems scanning farms 'constantly', beeming back crop data to a farm database and automatically processing images, even checking livestock at night is theoretically viable.

In any case, these are exciting times for people like us. We are farmers as well. My brother ran an unrelated drone company in aerial film and broadcast for years, before we decided to start using drone systems on farm. The data available has thus accelerated our push towards precision farming. We have people approaching us with multiple applications. Fruit growers for example see huge potential in assessing and counting trees in orchards. Satellite data simply can't offer this capability currently. But drones can, from a system which costs only a few hundred pounds, which you can fly whenever you choose. And the data processing is very affordable. For in-depth health analysis of individual trees for example, we can deploy higher-end systems and map areas for as little as a few pounds per hectare. Then highly capable data analytics can cost around £1 per hectare.

Of course you are right that sat data is good enough for equipment applying at 24m plus. But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about precision agriculture. Micro-management. And machines with section control capable of 'spot spraying'. Individual nozzle control is already here. It will be utilised in high value crops to start with. And in situations where tight control is needed on weeds etc. A lot of farmers are now looking to this technology to largely reduce inputs and accurately control where inputs are going. We have capability to start applying with prescriptions down to 50cm2.

Thanks for the good luck wish, we are already making money thanks and have been doing this for almost 2 years. In any case there is evidence now behind drone data. We are talking to farmers who have already saved large sums of money by utilising their drones to generate VRA's. Satellite data perhaps would achieve the same. But the guys using these systems on the ground can see the potential moving forward for higher res and whole farm data analytics software linked with there machinery.

 

[Clive]

Any farmers on here using drones to save them money using this high res image tech ?

 

[Clive]

Clive, fair enough. Its surprising you are so skeptical of the tech though, given you think ground robots will replace tractors etc. You are actually the first person I have heard from who doesn't think this technology has a place in agriculture.

I agree eventually automated ground machinery will also have a big place, but they will rely heavily on data for large areas. This is where drones and sat's come in. The best sat data at 3m resolution and produced even weekly isn't sufficient. As drone tech is already collecting better data and costs are coming down, I believe drone tech will out accelerate sat data capability. I don't think it will be that long before we have automated drone systems scanning farms 'constantly', beeming back crop data to a farm database and automatically processing images, even checking livestock at night is theoretically viable.

In any case, these are exciting times for people like us. We are farmers as well. My brother ran an unrelated drone company in aerial film and broadcast for years, before we decided to start using drone systems on farm. The data available has thus accelerated our push towards precision farming. We have people approaching us with multiple applications. Fruit growers for example see huge potential in assessing and counting trees in orchards. Satellite data simply can't offer this capability currently. But drones can, from a system which costs only a few hundred pounds, which you can fly whenever you choose. And the data processing is very affordable. For in-depth health analysis of individual trees for example, we can deploy higher-end systems and map areas for as little as a few pounds per hectare. Then highly capable data analytics can cost around £1 per hectare.

Of course you are right that sat data is good enough for equipment applying at 24m plus. But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about precision agriculture. Micro-management. And machines with section control capable of 'spot spraying'. Individual nozzle control is already here. It will be utilised in high value crops to start with. And in situations where tight control is needed on weeds etc. A lot of farmers are now looking to this technology to largely reduce inputs and accurately control where inputs are going. We have capability to start applying with prescriptions down to 50cm2.

Thanks for the good luck wish, we are already making money thanks and have been doing this for almost 2 years. In any case there is evidence now behind drone data. We are talking to farmers who have already saved large sums of money by utilising their drones to generate VRA's. Satellite data perhaps would achieve the same. But the guys using these systems on the ground can see the potential moving forward for higher res and whole farm data analytics software linked with there machinery.

Drone tech without doubt had a place in ag

I just don't think that place is in providing images as there are far more cost effective and less labour intensive ways of doing that

Have a read of the blackgrass mapping thread and nuffield report which sums up the evonomics / practicalities rather well I think

 

[Robt]

Or you could just scan, prescribe and apply in one pass... no hassle of cloud cover or battery running out on drone.....
All supplied and supported by your local Topcon area manger