GFC was to go ahead - now not going ahead

[Clive]

If that is true and several members of the nfu sit on the rt board what in the holy f**k have they been doing at meetings

the CT report says they were involved

 

[Clive]

RT clearly wants to set itself up as the collector/gatekeeper of the information it gleans from us otherwise the GFC would be inspected by third parties like FA is.

Just because GFC will pay no premium to the producer, that doesn’t mean our information won’t be potentially lucrative to RT.

the likes of Trinity and Agreena have invested 10’s of millions into this and would still be happy to admit their systems are far from perfect

so why on earth Red Tractor think they can either do this or begin to afford to is beyond believe and completely unnecessary as if anyone wants to quantify buy and sell BNG / C these systems exist

frankly Red Tractor and the BRC are 5 years and at least 20 million £ late to the party !

commercial markets will continue to develop and farmers can CHOOSE to sell into them and buyers from all industries not just “inset” food chain can buy from them as required …. a free market will set the price rather that the thinly veiled cartel that is the BRC !

 

[SilliamWhale]

the CT report says they were involved

I'm only stating what the NFU president said.. the NFU were not involved with it's development.

You must also be a conspiracy theorist...

 

[slackjawedyokel]

the likes of Trinity and Agreena have invested 10’s of millions into this and would still be happy to admit their systems are far from perfect

so why on earth Red Tractor think they can either do this or begin to afford to is beyond believe and completely unnecessary as if anyone what’s to quantify and sell BNG / C these systems exist

frankly Red Tractor and the BRC are 5 years and 20 million £ late to the party !

commercial markets will continue to develop and farmers can CHOOSE to sell into them and buyers from all industries not just under food chain can buy from them as required …. a free market will set the price rather that the thinly veiled cartel that is the BRC !

Yeah, but they have spaffed ~300K on it.

 

[Clive]

Yeah, but they have spaffed ~300K on it.

tip of the iceberg vs what it really costs to do this -the commercial players in this market have already burnt though 10’s of millions between them

RT could not organise a pee up in a brewery never mind developed anything this complex or expensive

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Apparently they weren't involved in it...

However, the announcement, which includes a number of supportive comments from retailers, has proved controversial with Red Tractor accused of not consulting with farmers and their representatives on the move.

NFU deputy president Tom Bradshaw said: “The NFU have not been involved with the development of the bolt-on module. I know some are reading the statement and wilfully assuming that we have.”

Even if they weren’t involved in the development of GFC, that does not mean they didn’t know about it. As board members the NFU would have received regular updates on the development-since March ‘21.

 

[Clive]

Even if they weren’t involved in the development of GFC, that does not mean they didn’t know about it. As board members the NFU would have received regular updates on the development-since March ‘21.

this is covered in the CT report - without doubt NFU were more than aware and involved - that’s a matter of independent fact now

 

[Clive]

I'm only stating what the NFU president said.. the NFU were not involved with it's development.

You must also be a conspiracy theorist...

Tom maybe needs to read that expensive report me thinks

 

[Batty]

the likes of Trinity and Agreena have invested 10’s of millions into this and would still be happy to admit their systems are far from perfect

so why on earth Red Tractor think they can either do this or begin to afford to is beyond believe and completely unnecessary as if anyone wants to quantify buy and sell BNG / C these systems exist

frankly Red Tractor and the BRC are 5 years and at least 20 million £ late to the party !

commercial markets will continue to develop and farmers can CHOOSE to sell into them and buyers from all industries not just “inset” food chain can buy from them as required …. a free market will set the price rather that the thinly veiled cartel that is the BRC !

Clive
If I remember correctly you had managed or were looking to sell carbon credits from your farm, does that mean that if RT and the supermarkets want to measure and use your credits they will be effectively using the equivalent of used petrol!! So if everyone sold there carbon credits first that would leave the supermarkets with nothing to get theor grubby hand on and pi55 on their chips big style.

 

[Bramble]

the CT report says they were involved

From my reading of the report NFU were not involved in the development of the GFC module. So Tom‘s statement is ‘technically’ correct.

The only reason they were not ‘involved’ was because the GFC module was run outside normal RT procedures. No Technical Committees or Sector Boards were consulted, this is where NFU members would sit. BUT the RT board approved this route, so who ever the NFU person who was sitting on the board in March 2021 would have OK’d it.

CT report makes it clear that the progress of GFC was reported frequently to various NFU officials (Sector boards, RT board, Ownership body).

So NFU can claim to be not involved in GFC, but no doubt they knew about it.

Question to Tom should ‘How much did the NFU know about the development of GFC?’.

Not ‘were the NFU involved?’

 

[SilliamWhale]

Clive
If I remember correctly you had managed or were looking to sell carbon credits from your farm, does that mean that if RT and the supermarkets want to measure and use your credits they will be effectively using the equivalent of used petrol!! So if everyone sold there carbon credits first that would leave the supermarkets with nothing to get theor grubby hand on and pi55 on their chips big style.

I think he's selling carbon flow payments.

RT will be wanting you do carbon friendly activities (of their choosing) at your cost as a condition of sale. They won't be wanting to pay you for anything

 

[slackjawedyokel]

From my reading of the report NFU were not involved in the development of the GFC module. So Tom‘s statement is ‘technically’ correct.

The only reason they were not ‘involved’ was because the GFC module was run outside normal RT procedures. No Technical Committees or Sector Boards were consulted, this is where NFU members would sit. BUT the RT board approved this route, so who ever the NFU person who was sitting on the board in March 2021 would have OK’d it.

CT report makes it clear that the progress of GFC was reported frequently to various NFU officials (Sector boards, RT board, Ownership body).

So NFU can claim to be not involved in GFC, but no doubt they knew about it.

Question to Tom should ‘How much did the NFU know about the development of GFC?’.

Not ‘were the NFU involved?’

Right enough. The thing is, I don’t think TB will want to give a straight answer on that.

 

[nonemouse]

The fact remains that if something similar to GFC is ever brought in it must be:
1) VOLUNTARY for ever.
2) MARKET LED. Farmers should be able to choose whether to join based on what the premium looks like. Supply and demand; high premium=more farmers joining etc.

The retailer/BRC/RT plan is to make it compulsory and require us to join in order to gain market access. This means we pick up all the costs and there is zero premium.

Arla have already developed something akin GFC for their milk producers.
level of farmer engagement is voluntary, but is reflected in price received by the farmer and so far they have been fairly successful in getting this to have monetary value from supermarket (and other) buyers. If GFC is brought in to give this information to buyers for free via RT then all the value Arla created is lost.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

From my reading of the report NFU were not involved in the development of the GFC module. So Tom‘s statement is ‘technically’ correct.

The only reason they were not ‘involved’ was because the GFC module was run outside normal RT procedures. No Technical Committees or Sector Boards were consulted, this is where NFU members would sit. BUT the RT board approved this route, so who ever the NFU person who was sitting on the board in March 2021 would have OK’d it.

CT report makes it clear that the progress of GFC was reported frequently to various NFU officials (Sector boards, RT board, Ownership body).

So NFU can claim to be not involved in GFC, but no doubt they knew about it.

Question to Tom should ‘How much did the NFU know about the development of GFC?’.

Not ‘were the NFU involved?’

TACs & Sector Boards are AHDB bodies, not NFU ones iirc.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Arla have already developed something akin GFC for their milk producers.
level of farmer engagement is voluntary, but is reflected in price received by the farmer and so far they have been fairly successful in getting this to have monetary value from supermarket (and other) buyers. If GFC is brought in to give this information to buyers for free via RT then all the value Arla created is lost.

Don't kid yourself that Arla wants to continue paying a premium. Once everyone is complying with their version of GFC, it will be a condition of sale. Take it or leave it, and magically, by then all the other milk buyers will insist on it too.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Arla have already developed something akin GFC for their milk producers.
level of farmer engagement is voluntary, but is reflected in price received by the farmer and so far they have been fairly successful in getting this to have monetary value from supermarket (and other) buyers. If GFC is brought in to give this information to buyers for free via RT then all the value Arla created is lost.

Once you make something like that compulsory across an industry, you lose the premium.

 

[Clive]

Clive
If I remember correctly you had managed or were looking to sell carbon credits from your farm, does that mean that if RT and the supermarkets want to measure and use your credits they will be effectively using the equivalent of used petrol!! So if everyone sold there carbon credits first that would leave the supermarkets with nothing to get theor grubby hand on and pi55 on their chips big style.

i’ve sold C for 3 seasons now - it’s been valuable additional income

sequestration is an annual event so what i’ve sold in the past has no bearing on what i sell in the future

a lot of misunderstanding re carbon markets - you don’t sell storage / reserves, you quantify and sell annual capture …. ie “additionality”

that’s said if RT do make this a condition of future supply i’m frankly done with growing food at all - i will put the farm into solar / batteries and any other development / bng / sfi , sell land etc and pee off to a yacht in the med !

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Just had a email of Christine Tacon, saying they are not going to take carbon credits and give to the trade. I still wonder further down the line????????

Probably true.

But is she prepared to state clearly that the supermarkets won't claim their supply chain scope 3 emissions are falling due to their GFC member supplier farms making 'continuous improvement' to their carbon footprint therfore the supermarkets are cutting their climate impact? That's effectively the same thing, taking the carbon credit for no reward.

 

[upnortheast]

Arla have already developed something akin GFC for their milk producers.
level of farmer engagement is voluntary, but is reflected in price received by the farmer and so far they have been fairly successful in getting this to have monetary value from supermarket (and other) buyers. If GFC is brought in to give this information to buyers for free via RT then all the value Arla created is lost.

First Milk have a scheme, not quite the same as Arla`a, as far as I understand, but gathering individual farm (individual field ) data which they say is returning money to the farm - 1 ppl ?

RT`s track record for returning value to the farm is non existent so why would anyone join their voluntary ??? scheme.

 

[farmerm]

You talk about testing food that is imported yes they say they test imported grain but no one has come up with any thing tested re, imports to say any thing ,there is a mirade, of other foods that are imported and no testing will be done it is just a shrade, to put people of . It's all double talk to make people think we need rt,

There is no testing on imports... those who do the risk assessment to determine what tests might be prudent are the same people who have to pay for the testing and deal with the consequences in the event of any failure!!