Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
Which is best
On farm or central
Farm already has 10 tonne an hour dryer
On farm or central
Farm already has 10 tonne an hour dryer
Grain storage
- Thread starter Exfarmer
- Start date
- Location
- Cirencester
Have on farm, 10t/hr old Alvan Blanch dryer, don't know any different to be honest but all bought and paid for, cost little to run esp with a larger combine, we can cut when we like, i.e. when dry and even in the wet year we got it all in the shed. Can also rent out the shed when empty, store kit etc etc
I guess central is ok, just cut it and forget about it, prob suits the larger grain barons with big Lexi's that need to push on regardless of conditions. I have not a clue what central storage costs but am sure there are some benefits to be had like blending and mixing etc.
I guess central is ok, just cut it and forget about it, prob suits the larger grain barons with big Lexi's that need to push on regardless of conditions. I have not a clue what central storage costs but am sure there are some benefits to be had like blending and mixing etc.
I like central storage. I like having a shed. Would I spend the money on some kind of fancy wooden drying floor and all that? Nope. Would I be without some flat concrete with a roof? Nope. If it gets cut dry, it goes in my shed. If it gets cut wet, it goes up the hill to the store. No more complicated than that for me. I don't have to push on in all conditions, but there are few harvests when I can cutting wheat at consistently sub 15% though the day.
If you grow feed wheat, have you weighed up the options of just sending wet wheat to a boat? I can send mine at 18% etc to Immingham - the claims are the same as they were about 10 years ago and I get paid on wet weight. I couldn't double handle it and dry it myself or in CS for that. For feed wheat now, so long as I am cutting it at around 17% it just gets heaped up and kept cool with a fair few spears.
If you grow feed wheat, have you weighed up the options of just sending wet wheat to a boat? I can send mine at 18% etc to Immingham - the claims are the same as they were about 10 years ago and I get paid on wet weight. I couldn't double handle it and dry it myself or in CS for that. For feed wheat now, so long as I am cutting it at around 17% it just gets heaped up and kept cool with a fair few spears.
I have central which is good for me as I small bale most of the straw for horse market so want it away. Some will say they make more from selling themselves,which you can do from some central stores too,some claim more from pools,doubt over the long term there is much in it, if you have a niche market having your own might be better, with central you can get premiums on some loads which makes a difference if its all in one heap at home you would suffer claims etc for sun standard loads. Capital cost is about £120 for central, cant do that for a complete setup on farm including the drying/cleaning/blending plant.
One big advantage of central is the ability to sell it if you no longer need it or want to retire, dont discount that fact it can be very useful,
average farmer
Member
- Location
- North Notts
Do you own the farm or tenented, If owned wack a shed up,
don't know that much about what you get from a central store at £120/t but i'd want it free for 10 years before paying any drying fees etc
Central storage is a con, a bloody big one ! You give them the capital to build a store and then pay them often more than commercial storage rates to use it
Anyone ever tried selling their storage ? I hear it's not as saleable as they suggest when your buying and will offer you peanuts for "secondhand" storage preferring to sell new space to new customers
I just don't get why anyone does it ? Save your capital and just pay local commercial storage or ask a merchant to put it into one of the many commercial stores they take each year if you don't want or can't do you own storage for any reason
Anyone ever tried selling their storage ? I hear it's not as saleable as they suggest when your buying and will offer you peanuts for "secondhand" storage preferring to sell new space to new customers
I just don't get why anyone does it ? Save your capital and just pay local commercial storage or ask a merchant to put it into one of the many commercial stores they take each year if you don't want or can't do you own storage for any reason
Derky
Member
- Location
- Bucks/oxon
We run a grain store but not a central store. If you want something stored cleaned or dried you get charged for handling and the like but thats it. Its much more transparant.
More transparent than what? Central store charges are easy to understand and the ability to achieve a premium on a single load if you only have one that achieves it is not something that is likely to happen in a commercial store, NO commercial store is going to have the clean wheat plant that camgrain have and the premiums it produces are very impressive.
I dont have a problem if people want to have their own store or use commercial space,but I think you and Clive are worried that if too much grain is central stored you will lose out as you will not be able to provide the service the big stores can and will be reduced to a niche market, not that there is anything wrong with that.
We have had this crap about buying storage and still paying to use it before its been explained,please play a new record, as for not getting much for it when you sell any unwanted storage, have you tried selling second hand grain kit or sheds, if you rented a flat store out for storage you would get a good return but not everyone wants others on their property
Not worried at all, we could sell the space in our store many times over
Just can't see why anyone would provide capital to build a store they then have to pay to use ?
If someone wants to give me £100/t to build a store and then let me charge you to use it every year please send the cheque to my Monaco address !
Alternatively you could just keep your £100/t capital and book space year to year as you require it
I know a bit about some of these central stores working within the storage industry and meeting and talking to ex employees or service providers to them. They are a house of cards that depend on new business to survive, dare I say ponsey scheme like in nature almost and would seriously be the last place I would think my money was safe !
Your choice but I really don't get it when there is plenty on independent and merchant storage available much cheaper, capital and commitment free
It doesnt cost a £100 tonne to build a shed current flat storage expansion is £46 if I remember correctly, its the labs driers and blending plant to obtain the premiums that cost the money, you are allowing adverts here to cover the costs of extra services just the same as central storage. The kit at camgrain I saw a week ago to produce supplier assured food ingredients is mega bucks but produces a premium far higher than normal milling wheat and allows lower costs on delivery.
Also some like the strength of working together, however I am not blind to the fact that not all farmer run businesses are well run, it just so happens that WG is and I believe that from what Ive seen so is Camgrain. How some of the commercial stores that I know obtain any form of assurance compliance is beyond me, good and bad on both sides, the best will survive the rubbish will go doesnt matter which side of the fence its on, at least we will agree on that.
Even £46 is money you don't need to spend
We could blend if you wanted just the same - I just don't employ a staff and admin team of hundred to do it so clearly my blending can't possibly be as good ? !
I'm glad I don't supply a central store with top quality grain to mix with other famers rubbish either ! Seems very fair that !
Your choice but as I say I can't see much sense in it and do worry about some of these companies and just how safe your capital really is or how easy you can access that capital if you want out in the future
I can't see how any merchant or independent store could work to lower standard. Gtas and tascc ensure that and are the same standards a central store would have to use and are much higher standard than accs etc
We could blend if you wanted just the same - I just don't employ a staff and admin team of hundred to do it so clearly my blending can't possibly be as good ? !
I'm glad I don't supply a central store with top quality grain to mix with other famers rubbish either ! Seems very fair that !
Your choice but as I say I can't see much sense in it and do worry about some of these companies and just how safe your capital really is or how easy you can access that capital if you want out in the future
I can't see how any merchant or independent store could work to lower standard. Gtas and tascc ensure that and are the same standards a central store would have to use and are much higher standard than accs etc
Do you a plant that "sees" everything that goes through it at 120,000 seeds a second and can get one grain of barley out of a heap of thousands of tonnes of wheat ? That is the level of product that these food manufacturers now require and are willing to pay for it, every load taken is is paid for on quality the processing takes the baseprice too a higher level. Staffs levels are a area that needs to be addressed from our point of view and is something that needs constant monitoring
No I don't but how much demand is there for this ? How many tonnes actually go through this (I hear not many!) how many sets of wages are you paying to run, market and administer this and how much more do YOU get for your grain as a result after all these cost have been covered ? And what happens if they run out of money one day when the can't find new buyers fir more storage ?
If you think it's a good reason to spend £46-110/t on someone else's store or fancy machinery then go for it, as I say I wouldn't !
This debate happens every year. Just like the chop / bale straw.
I have rented and owned land. A shed, a dryer and CS. @Exfarmer if you want to PM I would be happy to share my experiences of all of them with you. Obviously, some elements of CS ownership are confidential. JUst as Clive is not going to say how much profit he makes per ton of stored grain, I am not going to say how much dividend I get on my CS tonnage for example.
I have rented and owned land. A shed, a dryer and CS. @Exfarmer if you want to PM I would be happy to share my experiences of all of them with you. Obviously, some elements of CS ownership are confidential. JUst as Clive is not going to say how much profit he makes per ton of stored grain, I am not going to say how much dividend I get on my CS tonnage for example.
Cant dislose the figures as its private to members but there wouldnt be plans for a second plant if there wasnt demand.
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Grain Buyer
Member
- Location
- Omnipresent
I've seen what that mega-clean, supper blended stuff goes for, and I just can't see why they do it or the benefits the members get out of it, other then to swallow the BS and crow about how great the plant is! How much do members pay per year to store grain in CS. I know a bloke who tried to sell 500mt of CS space, it took him bloody ages, and who was his biggest competitor, the store itself which had loads of spare space to sell off it's own account.
They do it because the buyers want it and are prepared to pay for it, is that not what farmers are constantly being told to do, grow for a market?.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
What period of time do you get for your £46-£100 ? Is that 10 years ?
Forever till you want to sell it or lease it, can lease part or all for a year and then use it yourself. the cost can be paid up front or over a number of years, You pay to own the tonnage about £120 and then a standing charge which covers the cost of handling the grain in and out, cleaning,blending, testing, complying with assurance, store maintenance etc, if you believe commercial store owners this costs them nothing to do
. Drying charges are usually very competitive and you never have deductions for rejections on delivery to final buyer.