Grass seed

[som farmer]

no, i don't think i will, would love to know the answer though, it's just a huge difference. Just put it down to merchant creep, or bigger seed, or lower germination rates. One thing i am going to do, every new batch of grass seed, is going to get a germination test, 100 seeds on a bit of damp tissue, will show if lower germination is a cause.
The 'drought' resistant grasses we sowed last autumn, with herbs, have overwintered well, cows will be having a quick graze over 1 tomorrow, and that looks thick, it contains cocksfoot timothy plantain chicory prg and 2kg w clover. Where we have drilled plantain, it's gone mental, must love our soil. 15 years ago, we let out 28 acres for maize, no idea of his spray programme, but when the maize came off, we had a 28 field of wild plantain ! The keep sheep loved it, i must admit, i classed it as a 'weed', i know better now.

 

[Great In Grass]

Taken from a part of Germinals Web site.

"A bag of top quality seed that meets HVS (Higher Voluntary Standard) purity will have a purity of approximately 96.5%. At this level, a 20kg bag will only contain 19.3kg of seed, with the remaining 0.7kg made up of undesirable materials – a bit like buying a pint of watered down beer!

Germination is arguably a bigger factor. EU standards dictate that, depending on the species in question, seed must be at least 70-80% viable. At this level, only 14-16kg of seed from a 20kg bag will germinate reliably. Add 0.7kg of impurities and suddenly as little as 13.3kg, or 66.5% of the seed will stand any chance of growing.

Specifying a cheaper bag of seed is therefore a false economy as up to 33.5% of its content will not be fit for purpose.

In contrast, Germinal prides itself on selling only the best quality seed lots, with high purity scores and germination rates typically ranging from 90-95%, with the newest seed lots giving close to 98% germination. In fact, our Grade ‘A’ seed mixtures exceed all current industry standards, meaning more grass seed and less undesirable material".

 

[Great In Grass]

Some of the seed houses/suppliers I know who adhere to the HVS seed standard is Barenbrug, DLF, Germinal, Limagrain (includes Nickerson) & Wynnstay.

 

[Kevtherev]

Taken from a part of Germinals Web site.

"A bag of top quality seed that meets HVS (Higher Voluntary Standard) purity will have a purity of approximately 96.5%. At this level, a 20kg bag will only contain 19.3kg of seed, with the remaining 0.7kg made up of undesirable materials – a bit like buying a pint of watered down beer!

Germination is arguably a bigger factor. EU standards dictate that, depending on the species in question, seed must be at least 70-80% viable. At this level, only 14-16kg of seed from a 20kg bag will germinate reliably. Add 0.7kg of impurities and suddenly as little as 13.3kg, or 66.5% of the seed will stand any chance of growing.

Specifying a cheaper bag of seed is therefore a false economy as up to 33.5% of its content will not be fit for purpose.

In contrast, Germinal prides itself on selling only the best quality seed lots, with high purity scores and germination rates typically ranging from 90-95%, with the newest seed lots giving close to 98% germination. In fact, our Grade ‘A’ seed mixtures exceed all current industry standards, meaning more grass seed and less undesirable material".

Also very noticeable in the field by experienced eyes

 

[ollie989898]

You won't get 100% emergence from a given amount of grass seed as it doesn't have the grunt as things like wheat. I often wondered how much went too deep or wasn't covered by soil and dried out or died. Throw in slugs and the like and you don't get the emergence you would assume you would get.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Taken from a part of Germinals Web site.

"A bag of top quality seed that meets HVS (Higher Voluntary Standard) purity will have a purity of approximately 96.5%. At this level, a 20kg bag will only contain 19.3kg of seed, with the remaining 0.7kg made up of undesirable materials – a bit like buying a pint of watered down beer!

Germination is arguably a bigger factor. EU standards dictate that, depending on the species in question, seed must be at least 70-80% viable. At this level, only 14-16kg of seed from a 20kg bag will germinate reliably. Add 0.7kg of impurities and suddenly as little as 13.3kg, or 66.5% of the seed will stand any chance of growing.

Specifying a cheaper bag of seed is therefore a false economy as up to 33.5% of its content will not be fit for purpose.

In contrast, Germinal prides itself on selling only the best quality seed lots, with high purity scores and germination rates typically ranging from 90-95%, with the newest seed lots giving close to 98% germination. In fact, our Grade ‘A’ seed mixtures exceed all current industry standards, meaning more grass seed and less undesirable material".

It is nice to have a option to buy seed from someone like that. From my perspective as a forage grower and consumer via our sheep I welcome the ability to purchase from companies like Germinal. They don't make much from forage seed sales. Yet, they continue to invest in it. And have been for a while. I appreciate that.

 

[Kevtherev]

It is nice to have a option to buy seed from someone like that. From my perspective as a forage grower and consumer via our sheep I welcome the ability to purchase from companies like Germinal. They don't make much from forage seed sales. Yet, they continue to invest in it. And have been for a while. I appreciate that.

Large partnership with the university and trial farm at Aberystwyth with continued investment in plant breeding and development.

 

[Kevtherev]

You won't get 100% emergence from a given amount of grass seed as it doesn't have the grunt as things like wheat. I often wondered how much went too deep or wasn't covered by soil and dried out or died. Throw in slugs and the like and you don't get the emergence you would assume you would get.

And soil pests like our old mate the leatherjacket

 

[som farmer]

perhaps i should have asked, why are we paying 250% over and above inflation, than we were in 1970. But @Great In Grass has at least given some reasons, blame the EU !
It is interesting to see how UK standards were watered down by the EU, when we joined, another example was BSE, the UK standard for rendering animal waste, were a at a higher temp, so reduced to match EU's, the result is history now, another innocuous example, the last lot of bananas we had were 'straight', older members may recall the huge furore about the EU insisting on the 'correct bend' in them, cucumbers were subjected to similar, and both banned from sale, if not correct. Would it be a step to far, to link these stupid rules, to BSE, and affecting the 'commissions' actions of the present.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You won't get 100% emergence from a given amount of grass seed as it doesn't have the grunt as things like wheat. I often wondered how much went too deep or wasn't covered by soil and dried out or died. Throw in slugs and the like and you don't get the emergence you would assume you would get.

Do you think It would be ok to spray Minstrel and overseed with clover a few week after or will it effect germination

 

[neilo]

Do you think It would be ok to spray Minstrel and overseed with clover a few week after or will it effect germination

‘READ THE LABEL’ was always the standard answer when I did my sprayer tests.

In the case of Minstrel it’s pretty clear......

CROP UTILISATION AND FOLLOWING CROPS
Leguminous corps including peas,cloversandbeansmustnotbesownwithin12monthsofapplyingMinstrelat2l/ha. Strawfrom cereals treated at 2 l/ha may contain residues which could damage certain crops and must not be incorporated back into the soil; when strawisremoveditshouldbeusedonlyforanimalbedding. Manurefromsuchanimalbeddingshouldonlybeusedonorbefore cerealorgrasscrops. TheserestrictionsdonotapplywhenMinstrelhasbeenappliedat1l/haorless. Dueconsiderationmustalso be given to the restrictions imposed by other products that might have been used in the same programme.

(Cut & paste seems to have deleted the spaces, but I’m sure you can figure it out)

https://www.green-care.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Minstrel-Label.pdf

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Yes I did sge the 2 l rate but my spray contractor said I would be ok at the lower rate . Seems he was correct . Thanks

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Some f the trial work we've been going .

Hurrells long term ley drilled into burnt off pasture end of July. Sprayed a week before silage was taken then sprayed again 3 weeks after , lime applied at 2 ton just before drilling , seed chosen for there high resistance to fungal deasese , lambs have been on it for most of the winter . Its held up well . Its Wettishland being in a Serveerly Disadvantaged Region

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hurrells Cool Graze
Drilled end of September
Sprayed off after silage cut was taken , which was a mistake in reflection as I waited two weeks for enough regrowth to spray , had a months solid rain after drilling and a lot more since , seed really needs to be in up here by the start of September to give it chance to tiller before it gets to cold , chickweed has gotten hold so will need spraying as soon as it warms up

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Last one . Was broadcast into a ploughed field in May.
Off the shelf mix not not mine
Rust took hold in August causing server yellowing, stock rejected the grass and it was only when grass got short they finally grazed it off

Just make sure whoever you get your seed off you check that they have a high index for Fungal Attack

 

[Kevtherev]

No slag applied derek?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No slag applied derek?

Not on those . I've got some very low PHs . One of those had limex though . Until I've done some testing with the slag will stick to lime on those

 

[Derrick Hughes]

looking at re drilling some old grasses to make hay/haylage, what type of grass lay should i drill? what seed would you recommend and how much will the seed cost me for 10 acres worth? thanks in advance

I've sent you a hay mix and one for haylage .
I would advise you to get the soil tested if not already done

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Hurrells Cool Graze
Drilled end of September
Sprayed off after silage cut was taken , which was a mistake in reflection as I waited two weeks for enough regrowth to spray , had a months solid rain after drilling and a lot more since , seed really needs to be in up here by the start of September to give it chance to tiller before it gets to cold , chickweed has gotten hold so will need spraying as soon as it warms up View attachment 945793

It looks really nice though. I always add a few extra lbs of seed from the first of September. For the following reasons: 1) We are pretty far North. But not as far North as most of you, but further north than NZ is. The further North, the harder to germinate. 2) Snails. Those little black b........ They are more active in the fall. 3) Waterfowl - MF's will rob you blind if you let them. 4) My age.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It looks really nice though. I always add a few extra lbs of seed from the first of September. For the following reasons: 1) We are pretty far North. But not as far North as most of you, but further north than NZ is. The further North, the harder to germinate. 2) Snails. Those little black b........ They are more active in the fall. 3) Waterfowl - MF's will rob you blind if you let them. 4) My age.

Yes I agree with that , going into the 2cd year of direct drilling hopefully I can expand and improve on what I've learnt , one of the big benefits for me which I did not realise when a started was the ability to get stock on when a cultivated ley would not take stock. It supports stock better in wet weather and through the first winter