Grassing it Down

[kfpben]

For the third year on the bounce our contracted-out arable land has made almost no profit. 450 acres with bugger all to show for it.

By contrast the livestock I have raised on 100 acres of grassland (50 acre good leys, 20 acre HLS rubbish, 30 acre old PP) plus a bit of rented pasture have yielded a very healthy gross margin.
Conventional wisdom in this part of the world is that big shiny arable kit=good, livestock=bad. Am I missing something? We farm grade 3 flint/chalk/clay so not the best dirt. Most (though not all) folk round here have got rid of their stock over the past few decades. Is it the promise of an easy life? Or should arable be more profitable than livestock and it is our arable agreement that is holding us back?

Assuming Brexit doesn’t cause a collapse in the price of lamb I am minded to grass the whole place down.

 

[ShooTa]

keep some to feed the stock - and allow basic rotation of crops - grass being a crop - something similar and improved on teh clifton park system.

 

[7610 super q]

I don't care what anyone says, we're getting 1970's prices for our produce, with 2020 costs. Might be OK for those farming 1000's of acres......but those with 100's ?

 

[kfpben]

I don't care what anyone says, we're getting 1970's prices for our produce, with 2020 costs. Might be OK for those farming 1000's of acres......but those with 100's ?

That's the reason I'm thinking of going more down the livestock route.

If we were to take the arable ground back I would have to invest big money on tractors, drills, cultivators, sprayer, perhaps a combine or even a grain dryer.

To farm more sheep or beef cattle I need...a few more hurdles, some more electric fencing, some grass seed. That's it!

 

[spin cycle]

That's the reason I'm thinking of going more down the livestock route.

If we were to take the arable ground back I would have to invest big money on tractors, drills, cultivators, sprayer, perhaps a combine or even a grain dryer.

To farm more sheep or beef cattle I need...a few more hurdles, some more electric fencing, some grass seed. That's it!

you'd need more than a 'few hurdles'....you'd be increasing 5 fold....lotta capital needed for stock to....why not rent arable ground out

 

[Goweresque]

Does the 'almost no profit' include BPS?

 

[Bury the Trash]

For the third year on the bounce our contracted-out arable land has made almost no profit. 450 acres with bugger all to show for it.

By contrast the livestock I have raised on 100 acres of grassland (50 acre good leys, 20 acre HLS rubbish, 30 acre old PP) plus a bit of rented pasture have yielded a very healthy gross margin.
Conventional wisdom in this part of the world is that big shiny arable kit=good, livestock=bad. Am I missing something? We farm grade 3 flint/chalk/clay so not the best dirt. Most (though not all) folk round here have got rid of their stock over the past few decades. Is it the promise of an easy life? Or should arable be more profitable than livestock and it is our arable agreement that is holding us back?

Assuming Brexit doesn’t cause a collapse in the price of lamb I am minded to grass the whole place down.

By coincidence i'm just reading 'On the smell of an oily rag ' by John Cherrington.
Having never done so before.

 

[rob1]

By coincidence i'm just reading 'On the smell of an oily rag ' by John Cherrington.
Having never done so before.

It should be compulsory reading for those that think brexit will be the death knell of uk farming, it shows what can be done IF you are determined to succeed

 

[Bury the Trash]

It should be compulsory reading for those that think brexit will be the death knell of uk farming, it shows what can be done IF you are determined to succeed

Hmmm, politics

 

[kfpben]

you'd need more than a 'few hurdles'....you'd be increasing 5 fold....lotta capital needed for stock to....why not rent arable ground out

The arable ground is essentially rented out via a share farming agreement the my father formulated c.20 years ago.

The only difference to a pure rental is that I use some of the ground for stubble turnips in the winter.

 

[kfpben]

Does the 'almost no profit' include BPS?

It doesn't, but neither do my livestock figures. In fact the way the agreement on the arable ground is worked out we would receive substantially more BPS if I grassed it down, as currently the arable guys receive a portion of it.

BPS may become a historical concern soon enough though after October!

 

[rob1]

Hmmm, politics

Thats wasnt the point I was trying to make, DC showed how making a living during that time was about doing something different could turn a profit for him when many were failing to survive, even without brexit many seem to be struggling to make a living, it needs new thinking and IMVHO not listening to all the advisors/consultants but opening ones eyes and ears to see what opportunities there are, big is not always best

 

[Deutzdx3]

Even on share farming with your grade soil you should be turning a profit on 450 acres surely. Have you been using the same contractor for years? Worth a change? What about looking at some direct drilling. Getting some one in to drill it spray and combine. A lot of pressure now days to keep buying the latest and greatest kit. Not sure it’ll last.

 

[Goweresque]

It doesn't, but neither do my livestock figures. In fact the way the agreement on the arable ground is worked out we would receive substantially more BPS if I grassed it down, as currently the arable guys receive a portion of it.

BPS may become a historical concern soon enough though after October!

So in fact if the bit of BPS thats currently going to the contractor were removed then you'd actually be making a loss on the arable side? Sounds like to me you're paying your contractor to farm your land......I think a change of contractor might be required......this one seems to have got your number.

 

[kfpben]

So in fact if the bit of BPS thats currently going to the contractor were removed then you'd actually be making a loss on the arable side? Sounds like to me you're paying your contractor to farm your land......I think a change of contractor might be required......this one seems to have got your number.

You may well be right. The agreement was written up by Dad 20 years ago, while he was working full time elsewhere. I'm not sure how much sense it makes now.

 

[Goweresque]

You may well be right. The agreement was written up by Dad 20 years ago, while he was working full time elsewhere. I'm not sure how much sense it makes now.

If you've had the same contractor for 20 years they'll know the productive capacity of the land better than you do, and be able to make their charges match, so all the profit ends up with them, plus take a wedge of BPS on top. Unless your land is incredibly unproductive, I'd say you're being taken for a ride.

 

[multi power]

For the third year on the bounce our contracted-out arable land has made almost no profit. 450 acres with bugger all to show for it.

By contrast the livestock I have raised on 100 acres of grassland (50 acre good leys, 20 acre HLS rubbish, 30 acre old PP) plus a bit of rented pasture have yielded a very healthy gross margin.
Conventional wisdom in this part of the world is that big shiny arable kit=good, livestock=bad. Am I missing something? We farm grade 3 flint/chalk/clay so not the best dirt. Most (though not all) folk round here have got rid of their stock over the past few decades. Is it the promise of an easy life? Or should arable be more profitable than livestock and it is our arable agreement that is holding us back?

Assuming Brexit doesn’t cause a collapse in the price of lamb I am minded to grass the whole place down.

How much rainfall do you get ?
Is this land ring fenced ?
What is the tb situation locally?

 

[dannewhouse]

That's the reason I'm thinking of going more down the livestock route.

If we were to take the arable ground back I would have to invest big money on tractors, drills, cultivators, sprayer, perhaps a combine or even a grain dryer.

To farm more sheep or beef cattle I need...a few more hurdles, some more electric fencing, some grass seed. That's it!

And a lot of £££££ to pay for the stock?

 

[fgc325j]

By coincidence i'm just reading 'On the smell of an oily rag ' by John Cherrington.
Having never done so before.

It's been a long time since i read i., From what i remember it was getting into dairying around
the time that the MMB was formed that helped him, and then ,after WW2, he realised how
mechanisation was going to change farming and he opened a tractor dealership. He wasn't
afraid to lift his head up and look over the hedge. This book and AG Street's "Farmers Glory"
should be compulsory reading

 

[kfpben]

How much rainfall do you get ?
Is this land ring fenced ?
What is the tb situation locally?

Average 900mm rainfall.
It's in 3 1/2 blocks (pain in the arse). Though all within 3 miles.
TB not too bad....at the moment....fingers crossed.