Ground source heat

[Wendy10]

Anyone got the above? What do you think of it? Running costs etc.
We will be building a new 3 bed traditional house soon and there seems to be widely varying views on heating.

 

[scholland]

We have one, 6 years in now. Only breakdown so far are a circulating pump, which would be on any system, and a sensor that cost 50 quid.
Our total energy bill is around £150 per month on a 3 bedroom house. 10500 units last year.
Important to get the ground loops installed properly and works best with ufh.

 

[Wendy10]

We have one, 6 years in now. Only breakdown so far are a circulating pump, which would be on any system, and a sensor that cost 50 quid.
Our total energy bill is around £150 per month on a 3 bedroom house. 10500 units last year.
Important to get the ground loops installed properly and works best with ufh.

We are looking at ufh. Just downstairs though. Hearing horror stories of £20/day in electric bills.
Thanks

 

[Farfrae]

I was going to but after some research decided that it wasn't worth the capital cost. I seem to remember that I got some of the best info from Kensa

http://www.kensaheatpumps.com

In our case retrofitting loads of insulation, a wood burner (if you have free wood) and solar PV means that we in effect have no energy bills at all (and ours is not a new build) on a 'largeish' house. We use 1500 litres of oil a year (say £600) around £400 electric a year and get £1600 FITon the PV. So we 'make' around £400-£600 a year on our energy bill. We do have SHW as well but in hindsight I'm not convinced that is worth the capital cost either. If doing it again I'd consider a monitoring system that diverts 'surplus' PV energy to the Immersion instead.

Even allowing for the fact that you can't get that solar tariff anymore. You have got to burn one hell of a lot of extra oil to get up to the capital cost of GSH in a well insulated house. Of couse the installation costs of GSH and the RHI may now have altered and altered my decision if I was doing it now.

 

[nick...]

I have looked onto this and decided to go for air souce pump and rads.we have fitted several and all working well.ive installed a few ground source systems and the seem to work ok.biggest for a barn conversion was a hole 70 x 30 metres,3m deep with 10mm pipe every 300mm across the hole.great fun with mud and water and was done in the middle of summer.done another which was 4 x50m trenches with 32mm blue plastic pipe down one side of trench and back the other side.done another last year and done a 300m trench round somones garden and laid 2x32mm pipes in this at 1200mm deep.was a big garden and lots of mess.round trees,veg patch shed etc.you will need plenty of ground to install piping.probably best done in a field
Nick...

 

[Wendy10]

I have looked onto this and decided to go for air souce pump and rads.we have fitted several and all working well.ive installed a few ground source systems and the seem to work ok.biggest for a barn conversion was a hole 70 x 30 metres,3m deep with 10mm pipe every 300mm across the hole.great fun with mud and water and was done in the middle of summer.done another which was 4 x50m trenches with 32mm blue plastic pipe down one side of trench and back the other side.done another last year and done a 300m trench round somones garden and laid 2x32mm pipes in this at 1200mm deep.was a big garden and lots of mess.round trees,veg patch shed etc.you will need plenty of ground to install piping.probably best done in a field
Nick...

The house is to be built in a field, so that shouldn't be a problem. Lay out the garden after

 

[multi power]

so where does this heat actually come from, out of the soil ?

 

[Farfrae]

so where does this heat actually come from, out of the soil ?

The temperature of the earth at one metre below ground level remains fairly consistent between approximately 6 - 12ºC throughout the year depending on geographical location and soil type. This is stored energy from sun and water. A GSHP 'concentrates' this low grade heat like a fridge in reverse.

 

[nick...]

I think you can run these systems backwards to take heat out of a house and have the cooling out of the ground
Nick...

 

[Grassman]

I'm preparing to install one in a new bungalow I am building. Will be underfloor heating throughout. A neighbour did one a couple of years ago and is very pleased with it. I want to do mine with narrow trenches and a single pipe a metre down. Some use a rotary trencher to do a narrow slot.

 

[simon-0116]

I have looked onto this and decided to go for air souce pump and rads.we have fitted several and all working well.ive installed a few ground source systems and the seem to work ok.biggest for a barn conversion was a hole 70 x 30 metres,3m deep with 10mm pipe every 300mm across the hole.great fun with mud and water and was done in the middle of summer.done another which was 4 x50m trenches with 32mm blue plastic pipe down one side of trench and back the other side.done another last year and done a 300m trench round somones garden and laid 2x32mm pipes in this at 1200mm deep.was a big garden and lots of mess.round trees,veg patch shed etc.you will need plenty of ground to install piping.probably best done in a field
Nick...

we got air source but told only can have under floor as can't get hot enough to run rads. must b big unit.

 

[joe soapy]

Which is the best ground for GSH, heavyish or into shale?
or is there no difference

 

[Farfrae]

Which is the best ground for GSH, heavyish or into shale?
or is there no difference

Depends which is the best conductor of heat. There are also open loop systems. Lakes are actually one of the best sources of heat. Trouble is when I was looking there were an awful lot of cowboys jumping on the bandwagon who were not very knowledgeable about things (understatement). Worcester Bosch technical department also gave me good advice and having seen my plans said that it wouldn't work very well for my situation.

Some info here

http://www.kensaheatpumps.com/the-technology/heat-sources-collectors/

 

[Grassman]

I was told heavy clay is good

 

[nick...]

You can also drill down ito the ground and put pipes on vertically.this can be done in tiny gardens
Nick...

 

[john432]

so where does this heat actually come from, out of the soil ?

No heat in the ground in my area! Ground source heating is a totally wrong description of the system. My understanding is that electricity is used to run a refridgeration unit.( air con,fridge ,freezer ) but the heat is kept in the house and all the underground pipes do is get rid of the cold. spend thousands of pounds on a system that through the process of refrigeration multiplies your kwh units of electricity by 3 over a 50 quid eletric fire. you certainly dont get heat from the ground. not in west wales!

 

[suffolksmallholder]

We put one into a small cottage in 2008. Two 80 metre x 1.2 deep x 1.0 wide trenches so a total of 180 metres. You need to be in good 365 days a year damp soil, so sand is no good heavy clay is best unless you have a lake!
February takes some effort to get to the 55 degrees. Remember you won't get over 55 degrees and not many installers mentoin that, so you should really have a small boiler to add the 10 or 15 degree extra heat that will be required. If you do this you will have a super sysyem. There is a requirement for legionella prevention which is either by UV light or more commonly heating the water to over 60 degrees. This same thermostat will heat Februarys water to the required heat demand. Hence the bigger electricity bills during this period.
My dad had an air source fitted in 1978. The controls looked like a bt telephone exchange as there were no micro-chips in those days. This system, although clunky in relation to todays compact controls, worked well. He got his 25 years and beyond. We were putting insulation in houses even then!
SS

 

[multi power]

No heat in the ground in my area! Ground source heating is a totally wrong description of the system. My understanding is that electricity is used to run a refridgeration unit.( air con,fridge ,freezer ) but the heat is kept in the house and all the underground pipes do is get rid of the cold. spend thousands of pounds on a system that through the process of refrigeration multiplies your kwh units of electricity by 3 over a 50 quid eletric fire. you certainly dont get heat from the ground. not in west wales!

We put one into a small cottage in 2008. Two 80 metre x 1.2 deep x 1.0 wide trenches so a total of 180 metres. You need to be in good 365 days a year damp soil, so sand is no good heavy clay is best unless you have a lake!
February takes some effort to get to the 55 degrees. Remember you won't get over 55 degrees and not many installers mentoin that, so you should really have a small boiler to add the 10 or 15 degree extra heat that will be required. If you do this you will have a super sysyem. There is a requirement for legionella prevention which is either by UV light or more commonly heating the water to over 60 degrees. This same thermostat will heat Februarys water to the required heat demand. Hence the bigger electricity bills during this period.
My dad had an air source fitted in 1978. The controls looked loike a bt telephone exchange as there were no micro-chips in those days. This system, although clunky in relation to todays compact controls, worked well. He got his 25 years and beyond. We were putting insulation in houses even then!
SS

heavy clay is always cold so i cant see how you can get heat out of it, i can see how it would ne good at getting rid of the cold

 

[john432]

Exactly, multi power. but none of the sales people for these systems will never admit the truth! "Heat in the ground!, do they think this is Iceland!''

 

[multi power]

Exactly, multi power. but none of the sales people for these systems will never admit the truth! "Heat in the ground!, do they think this is Iceland!''

sounds like it might work, in summer