Growing rams to sell as shearlings?

[pgkane]

So first year selling texel shearlings and have ran them on grass and generally look good just a lot smaller than some that are being sold, planning on running them on turnips through the winter to keep them growing and mange there grass better the following summer.
So basically wondering how people go about it and what there opinions are on feeding and not feeding and all the malarchy with selling commercial tups?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

This is a difficult line to tread.

I am sure you know all of this but ruminants develop the right conditions in their rumen to digest the relatively indigestible fibre in forage. They rely on microbes to help them do this. By feeding too much 'grain-based' feed in early life, you can limit the development of the rumen and lower the pH to acidic conditions that mean these bacteria do not thrive (mild acidosis). The relatively accessible high protein content of these feeds causes fast growth but lower calcium and phosphorus density in the bone and ligaments - which leads to poor pasterns and poor locomotion. It also leads to fat in the testes, which can increase the temperature of the sperm cells leading to reduced fertility. Roots contain large amounts of energy, which is great for fattening but you need to protein if you are going to grow your tups... so think about high quality forage-based sources of this.

I understand you may want to boost a little growth of tups before a sale and 'even them all up' so to speak so feeding a little hard feed to add some condition is fine. Overfeeding really isn't. The difficulty you have is to balance what is the right thing to do for the fertility of the tups and how your tups look against those from breeders who are NOT doing it right.

So do you beat them or join them? You need to work that one out yourself. My tups would never sell for high prices in the sales but I would always get repeat customers from farmers who say my tups continue to grow even in the breeding season.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Guarantee that if you paddock graze next year and manage your residuals, you should achieve 18+% (you can get over 22%) from your leys and that will give you the growth you need for selling Shearlings. You just have to experiment at what you need and establishing when to shut paddocks up for silaging (test your silage too and you can use it as a protein source while on roots in the winter).

 

[gatepost]

Well there's a question, if you are just starting and therefore have to sell through the ring until you've built up some regular trade, then I hate to say it, but you probably will have to get your head around feeding, I say that after 30 yrs of trying to sell grass fed tups to folk who just can't see past the fat, a lot depends on the ground and grass you have, some of the pens of shearlings coming off the west coast of Wales genuinely have seen very little cake but different climate and grass growth coupled with running around on dairy ground, I have run mine on the side of the seven the last couple of winters, extraordinary the difference, what has been even more surprising is that my ewe lambs ran on a different farm a mile from the first, my gimmers are bigger than their brothers? but as one of the 'big' shearling producers said when asked what they had been on, why do you want to know? then went on to say barley beet pulp and a protein pellet, as much as they can eat, ie ad lib right the way through, but of course he sells his for a lot of money, unfortunately very few folk have the eye to see past the feed bucket, especially if they themselves are feeders. what ever you decide to do , at least just keep them gently going forward otherwise they won't have the frames on them what ever you end up doing.

 

[noagain]

Is steeped beet pulp not a safe option to pile into your tups?

 

[andybk]

This is a difficult line to tread.

I am sure you know all of this but ruminants develop the right conditions in their rumen to digest the relatively indigestible fibre in forage. They rely on microbes to help them do this. By feeding too much 'grain-based' feed in early life, you can limit the development of the rumen and lower the pH to acidic conditions that mean these bacteria do not thrive (mild acidosis). The relatively accessible high protein content of these feeds causes fast growth but lower calcium and phosphorus density in the bone and ligaments - which leads to poor pasterns and poor locomotion. It also leads to fat in the testes, which can increase the temperature of the sperm cells leading to reduced fertility. Roots contain large amounts of energy, which is great for fattening but you need to protein if you are going to grow your tups... so think about high quality forage-based sources of this.

I understand you may want to boost a little growth of tups before a sale and 'even them all up' so to speak so feeding a little hard feed to add some condition is fine. Overfeeding really isn't. The difficulty you have is to balance what is the right thing to do for the fertility of the tups and how your tups look against those from breeders who are NOT doing it right.

So do you beat them or join them? You need to work that one out yourself. My tups would never sell for high prices in the sales but I would always get repeat customers from farmers who say my tups continue to grow even in the breeding season.

exactly this ^^^^^^ good post @Sandpit Farm , would add dont worry about the others , just grow them right , and buyers come back , sale sheep often come and go like fashion , most lower down the pyramid are behind trend by the time they have bought into the latest fad , Get your breeding and feeding right and you will set your flock up right for future sales .

 

[Qman]

The bigger the tup, the more corn it has had, the more it will make and the sooner it will die.

 

[MJT]

I think grass fed tups are ones to be sold from home , p**sing in the wind having grass fed tups at a sale where they are next to pens of big fed sheep.

 

[andybk]

I think grass fed tups are ones to be sold from home , p**sing in the wind having grass fed tups at a sale where they are next to pens of big fed sheep.

the ones sold from home will leave the best margin for breeder , only ones to make on sale sheep are the feed / seed companies apart from top 5- 10% you really need to select out a few to feed to make your name at sales , but work on the buyers at the time (give them a card with your contact details on ) and get them to come to the farm next year . but make sure they get a good one to build on it further .Any problems deal with it promptly , market chatter can kill your trade dead or make it.

 

[DanM]

the ones sold from home will leave the best margin for breeder , only ones to make on sale sheep are the feed / seed companies apart from top 5- 10% you really need to select out a few to feed to make your name at sales , but work on the buyers at the time (give them a card with your contact details on ) and get them to come to the farm next year . but make sure they get a good one to build on it further .Any problems deal with it promptly , market chatter can kill your trade dead or make it.

Out of interest; which breed/breeds were you selling at Wilton today?

 

[andybk]

Out of interest; which breed/breeds were you selling at Wilton today?

Charollais ,

 

[pgkane]

Am going to get hold of some red clover silage to use on the turnips, if I were to pull some out in the summer to feed l, what should I feed and how much for how long without doing any damage to there insides?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Am going to get hold of some red clover silage to use on the turnips, if I were to pull some out in the summer to feed l, what should I feed and how much for how long without doing any damage to there insides?

For hard feed, a course mix would be best. You will need to avoid hard feeds meant as a ewe feed as it can develop urinary calculi (stones) in rams. A few weeks pre sale at a rate of maybe 1lb or less per day shouldn't affect rumen pH too much. If you just want a little finish, you could go for something like dried sugarbeet or whole oats (which are full of energy so will add fat), if you want protein for further growth, you'd need to think of sources like soya, beans or peas.... Don't overfeed protein % though as it will give them squits and they will lost condition. Honestly though, good established clover leys managed at the right height would have the same effect with less cost.... just don't put them straight onto something like fresh red clover without a steady transition or they will get bloat. There are good pieces written by Kate Phillips (Harper Adams) about ewe nutrition that could be applied.

 

[neilo]

Am going to get hold of some red clover silage to use on the turnips, if I were to pull some out in the summer to feed l, what should I feed and how much for how long without doing any damage to there insides?

I know of a few people, that I would describe as ‘moderate’ feeders, that just put a 3-in-1 feeder out with whole Barley in it. You could limit them to a pound a day, which would be spread throughout the day, and without the work of running out to your troughs several times a day.