- Location
- East Sussex
Some farmers want a loon in charge: a badger shooting, red tape cutting, plain spoken and vociferous leader!
Some of that was tongue in cheek, I'll let you work out what.
Guy Smith @ meeting with guth today
- Thread starter gone up the hill
- Start date
Some farmers want a loon in charge: a badger shooting, red tape cutting, plain spoken and vociferous leader!
Some of that was tongue in cheek, I'll let you work out what.
Exactly, like it or not the NFU are the spokespeople for agriculture in this country. I'd rather have Guy representing me than GUTH (and no offence intended guth just I think I share more common views with guy than yourself without having met you)
Will Blackburn
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
Now that is an admission.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
I've just gone back to @gone up the hill 's original opening post and read it line by line
Fair
Conciliatory
Bit of humour
1. I think he's been very fair, conciliatory and stated where he and @Guy Smith agreed to disagree
2. GUTH reported some view points from the NFU in the OP ; I believe in a way to imbue balance
3. GUTH is a likable man and very sincere and passionate about his industry. He's not Corbyn and he's not wishing to stand for NFU high office. He does want OMOV. I think some on here fear getting a fire brand to lead them who would not be political enough; I'm not convinced otherwise FFA would be truly ascendant by now. I'm not saying farmers aren't very very concerned about commodity prices and business sustainability right now but TFF has consistently brought out as many anti-FFA tactics as pro .................. IMHO
4. As the man who tried originally to broker a meeting between GS and GUTH a good while ago, I think it an excellent start that GS did go the extra mile and convene this meeting and for GUTH's business sake, I'm glad the SW NFU high-up is now a good listening ear for him and conduit for the future. As an NFU member, GUTH can do this at any time and without megaphone diplomacy on here or any other social media , that can only improve appropriate dialogue for the short term
5. On the other side I'm personally not convinced that the NFU or any farmer representation can effectively win on the likes of WLA. It may suit some folks but for me as a pasture fed, native cattle man, every move seems to be against me
Overall, I'm pleased for GUTH and GS and the conclusions drawn in the OP.
I suppose it's understandable that some of the thread follow through is to rip things apart.
I hope that GS - who has an almost certain route to the top crown - is therefore able to rise above some of the comments, continue to engage when he can spare time (I note usually it's 6am on a Sunday morning when he must be at his most tired from extremely long and enduring weeks and when he should be spending time on his family and his home farm)
Fair
Conciliatory
Bit of humour
1. I think he's been very fair, conciliatory and stated where he and @Guy Smith agreed to disagree
2. GUTH reported some view points from the NFU in the OP ; I believe in a way to imbue balance
3. GUTH is a likable man and very sincere and passionate about his industry. He's not Corbyn and he's not wishing to stand for NFU high office. He does want OMOV. I think some on here fear getting a fire brand to lead them who would not be political enough; I'm not convinced otherwise FFA would be truly ascendant by now. I'm not saying farmers aren't very very concerned about commodity prices and business sustainability right now but TFF has consistently brought out as many anti-FFA tactics as pro .................. IMHO
4. As the man who tried originally to broker a meeting between GS and GUTH a good while ago, I think it an excellent start that GS did go the extra mile and convene this meeting and for GUTH's business sake, I'm glad the SW NFU high-up is now a good listening ear for him and conduit for the future. As an NFU member, GUTH can do this at any time and without megaphone diplomacy on here or any other social media , that can only improve appropriate dialogue for the short term
5. On the other side I'm personally not convinced that the NFU or any farmer representation can effectively win on the likes of WLA. It may suit some folks but for me as a pasture fed, native cattle man, every move seems to be against me
Overall, I'm pleased for GUTH and GS and the conclusions drawn in the OP.
I suppose it's understandable that some of the thread follow through is to rip things apart.
I hope that GS - who has an almost certain route to the top crown - is therefore able to rise above some of the comments, continue to engage when he can spare time (I note usually it's 6am on a Sunday morning when he must be at his most tired from extremely long and enduring weeks and when he should be spending time on his family and his home farm)
not really as in westminster we can all vote - we don't have to turn up at conservative party meetings to express our opinion
I have NEVER voted on anything to do with the NFU but recall having my say on who gets a seat in westminster every 4 years
should none tax payers be stopped from voting for mp's and local councils just because they contribute nothing and never go to conservative or labour local meetings ? Ultimately everyone over 18 in the UK has some say in how they want this country run and that keeps politicians accountable
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Exactly, like it or not the NFU are the spokespeople for agriculture in this country. I'd rather have Guy representing me than GUTH (and no offence intended guth just I think I share more common views with guy than yourself without having met you)
they maybe be the self appointed spokesperson but when they represent less than the majority of UK farmers and this number seems to be falling why is that the case ? They don't even represent the members views when they ignore votes on WLA either - they think they know better than those they represent that much is clear
That is not democracy, it's dictatorial
Once I would have agreed Guy / the NFU was better than nothing but I'm no longer sure, especially now I know he is capable of lying directly to members
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
I think @Sleepy 's point is not about the General Election.
I believe Ed Miliband's re-structuring of the Labour party membership to the infamous £3 membership and vote on the leader led to a good few misguided but earnest folks (and a few devious right wingers
) getting Corbyn in. In a way it was OMOV over the PLP ..........On the Labour front, to my mind OMOV is perfect in that I never want them elected and Corbyn is perfect for that
If you want OMOV, I suppose you're saying you don't want a shoe in. Some may feel that farmers may need saving from themselves
In blatant terms OMOV gets a David Handley not a ................
much as I dislike Corbyn I accept that some clearly do - its their right to vote for who they want (rightly or wrongly) and in a democracy not our place to say that shouldn't be allowed regardless of our own views
I think @Sleepy 's point is not about the General Election.
I believe Ed Miliband's re-structuring of the Labour party membership to the infamous £3 membership and vote on the leader led to a good few misguided but earnest folks (and a few devious right wingers
On the Labour front, to my mind OMOV is perfect in that I never want them elected and Corbyn is perfect for that
If you want OMOV, I suppose you're saying you don't want a shoe in. Some may feel that farmers may need saving from themselves
In blatant terms OMOV gets a Derek Handley not a ................
the moment those in power think that those they represent need saving from themselves and dictate law / policy things have gone badly wrong and democracy is lost. its an inevitable cycle of power though that global politics constantly demonstrates usually ending in war ultimately
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
I'm not in power; I'm saying that OMOV could lead to the wrong candidate - a bit like the populist views on dealing with ISIS right now. Frankly I'd put more trust in Kerry right now than a Daily Mail campaign
I agree that OMOV would be better than the current status for electing NFU top team actually.
- Location
- East Sussex
OMOV shows what the public really want and what they are thinking. It is obvious they don't want a boring, regular type politician as head of the Labour Party that just rolls on with the usual bureaucratic nonsense.
Indeed, having a bit of a firebrand as opposition leader (I'm not saying Corbin is a firebrand!) may mean that Cameron could be a little more plain spoken about subjects such as race, immigration etc etc.
Perhaps farmers feel similar about the NFU?
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Until NFU version of Corbyn calls for the equivalent of a no shoot to kill policy with a live terrorist situation ...........
because I love our industry and it saddens me greatly to see it being represented so badly to politicians, the media and the public. I have also wasted countless thousands over the years supporting what now seems to be little more than a talking shop and information distribution system between government and its members.
I feel it needs to reform or get out the way some something else can take its place, it cant carry on as it is IMO thats for sure
Corbyn is not in power - he makes no decisions, the public would have to vote labour at the next election for him to have ANY actual power and that is unlikely, every single one of us has a say in that decision 3 years from now
however if they did then we would have to accept that as the democratic decision, just as those that hate Cameron right now have to accept he is the choice of the majority today
it really is pretty basic democracy at work - I cant believe anyone can honestly believe that dictatorships / communism etc is preferable !
however if they did then we would have to accept that as the democratic decision, just as those that hate Cameron right now have to accept he is the choice of the majority today
it really is pretty basic democracy at work - I cant believe anyone can honestly believe that dictatorships / communism etc is preferable !
- Location
- East Sussex
My point was that that a more extreme opinion may polarise the public into a definite opinion. In your example it MAY be the exact opposite and involve a better more stringent immigration policy or maybe the right to bear arms. A bit extreme but you get the idea.
Let's take the example of farmers and a shoot to kill policy on badgers. I wonder if you gave all farmers a voice and a vote on whether to cull badgers what exacltly they would come up with. I doubt they would want to go shooting badgers. More pcr test and gas?
Give people a choice and you may be surprised how wise and thoughtful about issues they actually are. We have been treated like children in this country for too long with bullish,t politics making decisions for us with less real action and more bureaucracy with issues being skirted round rather than discussed candidly. Some posters feel the NFU is similar.
Paul Bradley was who I met - senior social media advisor is his title https://uk.linkedin.com/in/paul-bradley-36848b74
I'm fairly sure he's aware of TFF. In fact I expect we create him an awful lot of work and problems
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
The latter is what I suggested yesterday,
I also said that the NFU should let their members have a vote on if they want one member one vote or not,
I think that if the NFU want to keep the current system then they at least need to make the way the county delegate votes much more open and transparent and release who they voted for and the reasons they voted for that person so their county members can see for themselves if the county chair did indeed vote for the person that the majority of that county's members asked them to or not!
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Exactly, like it or not the NFU are the spokespeople for agriculture in this country. I'd rather have Guy representing me than GUTH (and no offence intended guth just I think I share more common views with guy than yourself without having met you)
Well for starters I am far from a firebrand and have NEVER said I wanted a top job in the NFU!