Guy Smiths steps down from Red Tractor

[hally]

I’ve always thought Paul has come across as fairly anti RT on twitter

He will gage which way the wind blows. The second F and M outbreak, the result of a lab leak, brought a lot bad memories into Cumbria. Not only the carnage of the first outbreak but the guys who didn’t get culled ( myself included) were stuck with stock we couldn’t move, feed running out and no help at all. We were selling big continental ewes for £7 and getting billed for cleaning the wagon. Financially far worse than getting culled. In light of all this a lot of us felt an accidental out break had to be dealt with severely and the people responsible reprimanded and all affected compensated.
His attitude at the NFU meeting was couldn’t care less, best not rock the boat and save our ammunition for more important fights. The press were there and I remember leaving so annoyed by his attitude that I avoided them as I left as I knew I would say something I later would regret. I went home and resigned from the NFU, I realised they were not interested in any conflict with the government, even to the detriment of its members. It is his type that have put UK ag in the low position we are know, an industry deemed not even important enough to warrant a minister. We have representatives so toothless they can remove 3.5 billion of rural support without any fear of reprisals. Sadly he is the type they will appoint and we will have little say in the matter.

 

[Henarar]

WLA will kill off every small livestock farm, and most hill and upland farms. @Henarar has it spot on.

Absolutely, disadvantage anyone keeping a few cattle or sheep and anyone doing so to try to get going in the job.
it should be fought at each and every opportunity, fecking screwing bunch of....................

 

[Grass And Grain]

No, spose you could argue that no animal should be RT unless its mother was as there is a bit of the mother [the egg] still in the offspring all its life and as no animals were RT at one time then none should be now.
the line has to be drawn somewhere and its drawn in quite a handy place at the moment thanks very much, unless you get shot of the whole stupid lot that is.

say an RT arable farmer took on some land with growing crop from a non RT farmer, would that crop be RT at harvest ?

All sensible points of view Henarar, although 90 days is nonsense?

if I was forced to plump for one opinion or the other, I'd be inclined to say the 90day rule made the whole of RT nonsense. Supermarkets buy the animals knowing this, so it's just bunkum. Scrap it all!

 

[Grass And Grain]

He will gage which way the wind blows. The second F and M outbreak, the result of a lab leak, brought a lot bad memories into Cumbria. Not only the carnage of the first outbreak but the guys who didn’t get culled ( myself included) were stuck with stock we couldn’t move, feed running out and no help at all. We were selling big continental ewes for £7 and getting billed for cleaning the wagon. Financially far worse than getting culled. In light of all this a lot of us felt an accidental out break had to be dealt with severely and the people responsible reprimanded and all affected compensated.
His attitude at the NFU meeting was couldn’t care less, best not rock the boat and save our ammunition for more important fights. The press were there and I remember leaving so annoyed by his attitude that I avoided them as I left as I knew I would say something I later would regret. I went home and resigned from the NFU, I realised they were not interested in any conflict with the government, even to the detriment of its members. It is his type that have put UK ag in the low position we are know, an industry deemed not even important enough to warrant a minister. We have representatives so toothless they can remove 3.5 billion of rural support without any fear of reprisals. Sadly he is the type they will appoint and we will have little say in the matter.

That's not good.

An example of NFU top team deciding on a policy, but not listening to will of the members?

BFU would change that.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

That's not good.

An example of NFU top team deciding on a policy, but not listening to will of the members?

BFU will change that.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Henarar]

All sensible points of view Henarar, although 90 days is nonsense?

if I was forced to plump for one opinion or the other, I'd be inclined to say the 90day rule made the whole of RT nonsense. Supermarkets buy the animals knowing this, so it's just bunkum. Scrap it all!

as I said the line has to be drawn somewhere or no animal would ever be RT.

with you re scraping it but my worry is that to much mention of 90 days being nonsense will push it the other way, NFU/RT are itching to bring in WLA and subjugate the few free farmers that are left.
@topground puts it better than I can.

 

[Grass And Grain]

@Henarar you also make a good point about where should the cut-off be. 90 days, animals whole life, it's mum's life, when arable chap buys a standing crop or a new field, etc.

I guess you've to draw a line in the sand somewhere, although 90 days doesn't seem very logical to me.

If there was no blasted RT, we wouldn't need to waste our time debating such things!!!

And let's face it, does our government think non-assured meat (hate that terminology) is dangerous to eat. Have they banned it? No, course they haven't, it's good wholesome food.

RT have just wedged themselves between buyer and seller, and it's the seller who has to pay. Oh, and the processor if they want to use the logo.

Leeches.

 

[wrenbird]

When FABBL started I joined, mainly because the buying group that bought my lambs encouraged me to, and it didn’t cost too much ( if I remember rightly it was less than £50, because I had less than 100 ewes and only 6 beef cows to my name), and the rules were sensible and what I was doing anyway.
I didn’t have any permanent ground or buildings, I rented bits as and when I could afford it, took on all the awkward paddocks with the even more awkward owners that no one else would touch with a barge pole. I worked part time on a farm owned by the most miserly misery that nobody else could stick working for, only because I rented a building off him for the winter, despite it costing me more than the work I’d done for him.
I can’t imagine anyone like me being able to be to start like that and be farm assured now, I could keep the stock, but where would I sell them? There would be no more livestock markets,WLA would be the death of them, it would be the big meat processors and supermarkets dream, complete control from birth to plate.

 

[tullah]

No, spose you could argue that no animal should be RT unless its mother was as there is a bit of the mother [the egg] still in the offspring all its life and as no animals were RT at one time then none should be now.
the line has to be drawn somewhere and its drawn in quite a handy place at the moment thanks very much, unless you get shot of the whole stupid lot that is.

say an RT arable farmer took on some land with growing crop from a non RT farmer, would that crop be RT at harvest ?

All go in the farmers Home Farm grain shed and nobody knows the difference.
Need to be audited 24/7 if all this nonsense from them is to be enforced.
Another reason why we, the trade, RT, Nfu and the supermarkets know it's not worth the paper it's written on.
Its there solely to con the gullible public and the farmers. Corrupt organisations disappear in less time it takes for them to surface.

 

[Grass And Grain]

WLA will kill off every small livestock farm, and most hill and upland farms. @Henarar has it spot on.

Agreed, especially the smaller units. Or maybe a sheep farm who also keeps a few sucklers. Sucklers would be gone, which would be tragic.

In some ways the fatteners should all drop assurance and just take stock to the live market. That's what we did a few years back. We had that option. Not so easy for grain.

As Clive said, Poison Challis taking on a role at RT.

 

[Henarar]

When FABBL started I joined, mainly because the buying group that bought my lambs encouraged me to, and it didn’t cost too much ( if I remember rightly it was less than £50, because I had less than 100 ewes and only 6 beef cows to my name), and the rules were sensible and what I was doing anyway.
I didn’t have any permanent ground or buildings, I rented bits as and when I could afford it, took on all the awkward paddocks with the even more awkward owners that no one else would touch with a barge pole. I worked part time on a farm owned by the most miserly misery that nobody else could stick working for, only because I rented a building off him for the winter, despite it costing me more than the work I’d done for him.
I can’t imagine anyone like me being able to be to start like that and be farm assured now, I could keep the stock, but where would I sell them? There would be no more livestock markets,WLA would be the death of them, it would be the big meat processors and supermarkets dream, complete control from birth to plate.

Yep with markets gone and vertical integration the job would be sown up like pig and poultry is

 

[Henarar]

And let's face it, does our government think non-assured meat (hate that terminology) is dangerous to eat. Have they banned it? No, course they haven't, it's good wholesome food.

Ask anyone that sells meat direct to the end customer if they ever get asked about RT

 

[Andy Nash]

He will gage which way the wind blows. The second F and M outbreak, the result of a lab leak, brought a lot bad memories into Cumbria. Not only the carnage of the first outbreak but the guys who didn’t get culled ( myself included) were stuck with stock we couldn’t move, feed running out and no help at all. We were selling big continental ewes for £7 and getting billed for cleaning the wagon. Financially far worse than getting culled. In light of all this a lot of us felt an accidental out break had to be dealt with severely and the people responsible reprimanded and all affected compensated.
His attitude at the NFU meeting was couldn’t care less, best not rock the boat and save our ammunition for more important fights. The press were there and I remember leaving so annoyed by his attitude that I avoided them as I left as I knew I would say something I later would regret. I went home and resigned from the NFU, I realised they were not interested in any conflict with the government, even to the detriment of its members. It is his type that have put UK ag in the low position we are know, an industry deemed not even important enough to warrant a minister. We have representatives so toothless they can remove 3.5 billion of rural support without any fear of reprisals. Sadly he is the type they will appoint and we will have little say in the matter.

I always felt the NFU would do nothing that would disadvantage it’s core, which is large arable farmers in the south east of England. There are and have been committed nfu livestock committee men but I never felt they held much sway at head office. As you say, it was often the ones that weren’t culled that were in the worse trouble during F&M

I remember an nfu man telling me that things would be so much worse if it wasn’t for the nfu lobbying the govt.
My point is this: During the not that many years that I ran a dairy farm, 2/3 of dairy farmers left the industry.
So, looking back, how much worse could it have actually been if the nfu hadn’t lobbied the govt?

A further point, while Mrs Johnson is in No 10, no one is listening to farmers anyway, they are far too busy exporting our food industry, so it might be an ideal time to start a new union and give it time to build critical mass.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Ask anyone that sells meat direct to the end customer if they ever get asked about RT

Spot on. No RT logos in the price premium places of farm shops, box schemes or local butchers.

 

[Henarar]

Spot on. No RT logos in the price premium places of farm shops, box schemes or local butchers.

absolutely

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Agreed, especially the smaller units. Or maybe a sheep farm who also keeps a few sucklers. Sucklers would be gone, which would be tragic.

In some ways the fatteners should all drop assurance and just take stock to the live market. That's what we did a few years back. We had that option. Not so easy for grain.

As Clive said, Poison Challis taking on a role at RT.

Poison chalice ? Just toe the line and it becomes a lucrative gravy train !

 

[Andy Nash]

Was in Tebay services yesterday, that one on the telly, beautiful meat counter and no red tractor.

 

[Clive]

I’ve always thought Paul has come across as fairly anti RT on twitter

me too and having spoken with him several times on the subject he is no fan of Red Tractor … …… however being on their payroll has history of changing that sadly !

its such a toxic position now ii’m not sure its a wise move for him or anyone else with ambition in ag “leadership“

 

[colin.knockann]

Interesting to see the Chair of RT running to sit on the board of a major retailer. As someone largely supportive if not critical of assurance schemes, this does raise an eyebrow!

 

[Tim G]

Ask anyone that sells meat direct to the end customer if they ever get asked about RT

Been selling direct for many years now, never can I think of on instance when a customer has asked about farm assurance. Lots of other questions, are we organic, are our cows grass fed, do we feed soy, do we use antibiotics, the list goes on. Never farm assured though, which makes me think it is quite meaningless to customers. Heck, we are even approved by the government to sell our milk to the public unpasteurised, but it wouldn't be good enough for a processor because I might not have a written policy on how to put my boots on in the morning.