Harry's farm

[AnyOldName]

What prejudice would that be then ?

In the first minute he sets his stall out: Cows are bad for the planet, but UK cows are better than foreign cows. You explain to me how that is a tenable stance to take.

Because you’ve jumped to a conclusion before even hearing/seeing the scientific evidence that supports his opening statement. That data highlights the differences between global data and UK specific data, thus demonstrating the inaccuracies of the Channel 4 documentary.

 

[delilah]

So we shouldn't just be saying that UK cows are less damaging to the climate than foreign cows, we should also be highlighting the fact that there are less cows in the UK than there used to be ?

In what way is that something to be shouting about ? Whenever someone posts about Eire, or Holland, planning to reduce cow numbers to save the planet, everyone quite rightly ridicules the idea. Because it isn't the cows, it's the fossil fuels.

It is entirely possible to make a video explaining how cows are part of a sustainable food system, and in the process destroy the fake science being used against us, without once referring to anything abroad. Why didn't this Harry chap do that ?

 

[Bald Rick]

So we shouldn't just be saying that UK cows are less damaging to the climate than foreign cows, we should also be highlighting the fact that there are less cows in the UK than there used to be ?

In what way is that something to be shouting about ? Whenever someone posts about Eire, or Holland, planning to reduce cow numbers to save the planet, everyone quite rightly ridicules the idea. Because it isn't the cows, it's the fossil fuels.

It is entirely possible to make a video explaining how cows are part of a sustainable food system, and in the process destroy the fake science being used against us, without once referring to anything abroad. Why didn't this Harry chap do that ?

Possibly because first & foremost he is a motoring journalist?


FWIW, I'm backing @delilah in this argument. Cows/methane aren't the issue in global warming as we have all agreed ad nauseum that they are part of the carbon cycle BUT - and it is the big BUT - the general population are being frog marched by the main stream media in to believing that they are a large part of the warming problem. Finger pointing at other countries and their practices just obfuscates the argument.

No wonder the supermarkets rule with such divided opinions!

 

[Case290]

Agree I think he was so cross at the sh!t they put on the bbc. The bbc was just promoting veggies buggers by saying beef was bad and picked on a beef eater and basically bulled him to not eat meet. How much sh!t goes into them veggie burgers any way. the bbc will have to apologise for putting that crap on the telly surely.
Mean while the other side the world they’re blowing each other up.

 

[Grass And Grain]

So we shouldn't just be saying that UK cows are less damaging to the climate than foreign cows, we should also be highlighting the fact that there are less cows in the UK than there used to be ?

In what way is that something to be shouting about ? Whenever someone posts about Eire, or Holland, planning to reduce cow numbers to save the planet, everyone quite rightly ridicules the idea. Because it isn't the cows, it's the fossil fuels.

It is entirely possible to make a video explaining how cows are part of a sustainable food system, and in the process destroy the fake science being used against us, without once referring to anything abroad. Why didn't this Harry chap do that ?

I thought Harry was trying to say British beef is a lot better than S American beef, 95% of the beef consumed here is British/Irish grass based, therefore the consumer can continue to eat British beef safe in this knowledge?

He also showed his Sussex grass based herd, which is the sort of system/provenance which might be more likely sold at price premiums and through local butcher's etc. ??

 

[jonnieboy]

Hell fire I hope this thread disappears quickly
Like it or not farming in the uk is under attack from just about everyone
What Harry has done is defend HIS business and why shouldn’t he ? His target audience is not fellow farmers but the public and that is where support for British farming needs to come from they don’t give a toss if it’s methane measurement a or b
Like it or not sending 30 cattle a year less than 30 miles can not compete with a feedlot finishing over 100,000 head a year and they don’t have to change much to wipe out your little enterprise and they won’t stick up for your business at all probably welcome the chance to fire the D8 up again

 

[Simon Chiles]

If folks want to pick holes in how others choose to farm, then there are plenty of technical threads on here.

That is very different from putting out promotional material aimed at the general public. For such purposes, a united front is absolutely essential.

I saw this a few years ago and your comments reminded me of this.

 

[Clive]

. Why didn't this Harry chap do that ?

why didn’t you ?

………. and THAT is the problem!

i don’t even have any livestock but still did whatever i could via social media to try and defend the bullshite

if the uk livestock industry wants a future it HAS to start defending itself better and countering the bullshite. - doing that takes time and time has a cost, budget needs to be allocated and spent doing this



in just 24hrs one tweet can get this kind of reach ……. imagine what a small paid team doing this kind of thing full time could do reach wise ! . ……… in a nutshell that exactly how the vegan / climate lobby have a achieved such control of the narrative

BUT - if EVERY farmer on twitter had bothered to like / retweet that it impressions would be in the millions ….. that’s how the algorithms work

Agricultural needs to get more “gorilla” with its marketing ! AHDB need to allocate budget to fund a small team that do this WELL with their gloves off and teeth out not just defending but ATTACKING as well

 

[Ffermer Bach]

All of our farms were forest once.

i disagree on that one, our landscape was an open savanah

 

[betternextyear]

Harrys video has had nearly 200k views which is probably 10x the views that channel 4 gets. If all us farmers promoted it on our individual social media. ! million views would be possible. Go on Guys get sharing. please.

 

[Clive]

Harrys video has had nearly 200k views which is probably 10x the views that channel 4 gets. If all us farmers promoted it on our individual social media. ! million views would be possible. Go on Guys get sharing. please.

this is how you change or take control of a narrative - social media has FAR greater reach than TV these days

everyone plays a part - you need a few people creating the content and then a coordinated effort and commitment by everyone to like / retweet etc to push things up the algorithms

the impact could be huge - harry’s video could get millions of views if EVERY farmer liked / linked it and tweets like mine above should grow to millions of impressions

this is what the anti meat lobby are doing VERY well yet farmers are frankly pathetic at right now assuming ahdb / nfu will do it all for us

 

[delilah]

Possibly because first & foremost he is a motoring journalist?

He's the poor man's Clarkson ? That explains it. Pair of them can go whistle.

 

[delilah]

why didn’t you ?

………. and THAT is the problem!

i don’t even have any livestock but still did whatever i could via social media to try and defend the bullshite

if the uk livestock industry wants a future it HAS to start defending itself better and countering the bullshite. - doing that takes time and time has a cost, budget needs to be allocated and spent doing this

I did: put a post on our fb last night. I shouldn't have to. It's why we pay levy, to pay for this stuff to be done on our behalf. Instead we are too busy fire fighting the bullsh1t being put out by the very organisations who are meant to be supporting us.

 

[melted welly]

He's the poor man's Clarkson ? That explains it. Pair of them can go whistle.

Don’t think that’s fair at all.

Harry’s point about feedlots was that the headline emission figure for beef included land use change ie clearing of forest. Hence his latter comment (that you thought irrelevant) about how long cattle have been farmed in the UK. There isn’t any land use change, so the irrelevant graph is even more irrelevant to UK than the rest of the world.

I agree with you that the United front should be cows are the solution not the problem. But put yourself in the shoes of Kevin and Karen who get drip fed the opposition BS day in, day out. It’s a step too far to hit the reset button and understand your position, it requires a softer touch, which Harry has provided. Read the comments section to his video, almost unanimous support from a broad section of world society - biologists, general public, some science person parroting the “ah, but it’s the methane…..” line gets shot down and told to go back to school, farmers from all over saying it’s the same lies in their country. I can’t understand why you are so hostile to him, I did look for your inevitable comment calling him a muppet, but couldnt seem to find it.

 

[Clive]

I did: put a post on our fb last night. I shouldn't have to. It's why we pay levy, to pay for this stuff to be done on our behalf. Instead we are too busy fire fighting the bullsh1t being put out by the very organisations who are meant to be supporting us.

social media is all about numbers - we have to help ourselves

but i agree AHDB should be also funding this kind of thing but to do so they need to stop thinking so traditionally re PR and start talking to the right people who could achieve a LOT

when i think what i could do with say 500k pa with a small team on social media ( less than 1% of levy) it would change the narrative completely !

 

[Bald Rick]

He's the poor man's Clarkson ? That explains it. Pair of them can go whistle.

No, that’s not fair. Both are excellent communicators and are not afraid of putting their heads above the parapet telling people how it is. Obviously, they - like the majority of us - deliver their messages from their own perspective primarily but both do get actively involved in farming although both are bolstered by a diversified income stream .. of which YouTube plays no small part for Harry with his farm and garage channels

And whilst we’re at it, my Jersey cows only fart flowers and sunshine unlike those ‘orrible Holsteins belching everywhere like agricultural students on a bender

 

[britishblue]

I also admire Harry's honesty from a devoted petrolhead that fossil fuels are the problem!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Er no we don't use growth hormones.
Most of the feed grade soya imported into this country
is used in the dairy,chicken and pig livestock enterprises.
It's very misleading to sell broiler chicken as better than beef
for the enviroment.

We don't feed antibiotics as part of TMR, to counter liver abscesses caused by acidosis due to extreme diets either. I understand many feedlots in the USA buy their powdered antibiotics by the pallet to add to the feed mix.

Also, US feedlots are highly focused on meat eating quality (rather than carcass conformation which the EUROP grid forces UK producers to focus on instead).

Otherwise, however, @delilah is right that an intensive grain fed UK beef finisher is quite similar to a US feedlot except for scale.

 

[britishblue]

But then again I intensively feed my calves ad lib barley to finish them BUT all calves bred on the farm and finished on the farm with home grown cereals. The only bought in is mineralised protein balancer ! Where does that leave me? I must save a lot of carbon with less haulage of store cattle and feed?

 

[delilah]

Don’t think that’s fair at all.

Harry’s point about feedlots was that the headline emission figure for beef included land use change ie clearing of forest. Hence his latter comment (that you thought irrelevant) about how long cattle have been farmed in the UK. There isn’t any land use change, so the irrelevant graph is even more irrelevant to UK than the rest of the world.

I agree with you that the United front should be cows are the solution not the problem. But put yourself in the shoes of Kevin and Karen who get drip fed the opposition BS day in, day out. It’s a step too far to hit the reset button and understand your position, it requires a softer touch, which Harry has provided. Read the comments section to his video, almost unanimous support from a broad section of world society - biologists, general public, some science person parroting the “ah, but it’s the methane…..” line gets shot down and told to go back to school, farmers from all over saying it’s the same lies in their country. I can’t understand why you are so hostile to him, I did look for your inevitable comment calling him a muppet, but couldnt seem to find it.

Last month we did a couple of bullocks into beef boxes. Received an email from a would-be new customer, asking a whole load of painfully pc questions. I was doing quite well until I got to the very last question, you could tell from the tone that she barely thought it worth asking: "I assume your cattle are 100% grass fed ?". I could have left her to assume, but I didn't, so a lost customer.

That's the issue. Your Kevin and Karen aren't watching Harry's video. They are too busy keeping their heads above water. Jemimah and Sebastian are watching it though. What possible good is it doing, making our most discerning customers question production methods that are legitimately part of UK agriculture ?

This is why @slackjawedyokel and @L P are so angry at The Soil Association giving its backing to the 'eat less meat and dairy' court case. Lets tell our loyal SA members Jemimah and Sebastian to eat less meat. How much of a kick in the teeth is that for SA certification payers ?

So, yes, you are correct. I am slipping. Harry is a muppet. Make videos about buying local, about buying British, about the need to keep our abattoirs open. But don't make videos that pit one livestock production system against another.