Help updating our cattle system please!

[z.man]

the cattle have obviously served your business well in the past just not well enough to invest in upgrading the steading, it is getting to the time when hard decisions are going to have to be made and I think you are in a good position to make them Cattle have evolved in the last 20 years they've got bigger and not any quieter try your best to do what you feel is correct but make sure both you and your father are going to be safe and are not just doing things because you always have, 20k for a new shed is cheap compared to risking someone getting hurt

 

[Walterp]

the cattle have obviously served your business well in the past just not well enough to invest in upgrading the steading, it is getting to the time when hard decisions are going to have to be made and I think you are in a good position to make them Cattle have evolved in the last 20 years they've got bigger and not any quieter try your best to do what you feel is correct but make sure both you and your father are going to be safe and are not just doing things because you always have, 20k for a new shed is cheap compared to risking someone getting hurt

Twenty thousand?

When was the last time you priced up a decent cattle shed? A nice 120' x 50' with outside yarding and penning, and a safe handling system, is gonna be a lot more than £20,000 - try £100,000, and see how much change you get....

These guys have been getting away with things on the cheap for so long, they aren't likely to spend ten grand, leave alone a hundred grand, on cattle accommodation, are they?

 

[-chris-]

I also have a winter job working for someone who builds and repairs council playgrounds. + a mobile sawmill that I bought from an uncle years ago (need another gale to provide me with some more cheap oak trees).

 

[caveman]

Only one thing you need to replace.
It's something your father has which you don't seem to have.
It's yourself.
If you aint got one, start working on getting yourself a son. Your wife/partner can open and shut the gates for you untill he is big/old enough to help.
Done right, looked after and maintained properly, it will be the best investment you will of ever made.

 

[-chris-]

Only one thing you need to replace.
It's something your father has which you don't seem to have.
It's yourself.
If you aint got one, start working on getting yourself a son. Your wife/partner can open and shut the gates for you untill he is big/old enough to help.
Done right, looked after and maintained properly, it will be the best investment you will of ever made.

Yes have a 5 month old son, that's the real reason for this thread. If I can inspire him to be interested the farm I'd like to hand him an opportunity to enjoy his work as much as I do with financial reward. I don't really see myself as owning the farm even though i'm a partner, more like a guardian looking after it to pass it on. Or he might want to be a footballer or rockstar, who knows.

Truth is, with the woodland, marshes, river, livestock, workshop etc there is sure to be something he will find much more rewarding than a big bank account.

 

[bigw]

I think if you want to continue keeping cattle then you should look at new housing if its needed as it will make working with them alot easier and safer. Loads of firms offer 'special' offer buildings which include wall panels, we have just put up a 120' by 40' with 10' overhang ourselves. The kit we bought wasn't the cheapest but we will have it errected for around 30K ish. Lay some concrete for a feed and scrape passage and hardcore the bedding area.

I think the idea of keeping a small herd of perhaps native cattle could work well especially if you have interest in it.

 

[topground]

Adapt what you have to one person operation.
If buying the type of cattle works for you don't change it all at once, run two groups if you can to make costing comparisons before you switch.

 

[lim x]

Your situation is not dissimilar to ours. Mainly it takes both of us for bedding and silage, and we bag up grub and feed round into mangers. We are looking at getting a secondhand bale chopper for this winter though - could you do the same?? Also, could you shut the cows into the outside area while you bed down and feed ??

Would your dad be happy for you not to continue with the cattle?? If it were my dad he would be pretty damn mad if i chucked the cattle in the minute he wasn't around to help - up to now it sounds like you still want to keep em. It also sounds that he has done well in keeping the financial side sound.

IMO, make changes to make life easier for yourself and your boy gradually, the buildings will always be there to convert later if necessary, maybe do them yourself when your lad is older.

It all depends on how little or much you want to do, i don't believe you have to throw vast sums of money at the job to improve and make life easier, we have used good secondhand materials, built our own handling system, etc, shiny and new doesn't always do any better job or earn more money.

Good Luck, you have a lovely place.

 

[Walterp]

It all depends on how little or much you want to do, i don't believe you have to throw vast sums of money at the job to improve and make life easier, we have used good secondhand materials, built our own handling system, etc, shiny and new doesn't always do any better job or earn more money.

Interesting range of responses; for me, the key is 'investment' - you can invest in upgrades and improvements gradually, or in a big push forwards, but the reality is that, unless you are investing in infrastructure on a fairly regular basis the farm business (or that part of it) risks going backwards.

We've seen this in the dairy field: at some point, an unimproved system becomes unfeasible by dint of scale or labour requirements, and exit or capital investment becomes inevitable.

I'm sorry that I'm not as sympathetic as most, but in most cases sooner or later someone, generally, needs to increase scale or get out of production. I know many farmers that'd not agree, squirreling away the profits in the good years rather than re-investing - and then they wonder why they can't keep up with industry development.

 

[jade35]

How long do you store the grain and is it feasible to use the grain barn for housing stock over the winter? Iirc you run two groups of stock over the winter? The freshly bought yearlings and the finishing bullocks? Is it possible to buy the youngstock later on, possibly going into the spring? Another option for the younger animals is an outside straw yard. I would have thought with your (low I assume) rainfall and plenty of straw it would be ideal. Eblex have a booklet on woodchip yards which would be similar but obviously for the areas where straw is expensive. Cattle always look better outside and it may be a way of avoiding pneumonia etc. in the youngstock. Timber for the corral and a good electric fence to keep them in, simple pipework to drain the liquid away to a storage tank and you would still have the muck for the ground. The main problem is that you would probably need a straw chopper to blow the straw into the yard and an easy way of feeding the youngstock along one side of the fence but it should still be simpler than in the small yards.

 

[Nearly]

Long term it is going to need a new shed(s) , at arms length from the probable barn conversions, you want to give the next generation the luxury of not having to ask the same question on here in 25 years time.
There seems to be a need for some rationalisation between the 2 farms if you are going to be 'running' one and being the helper on Grandad's. How come grandad has a bedding machine and you haven't? Get it borrowed as your thanks for helping him
For now I'd be trying to make an 'airlock' at the entrance of the yards with 2 self closing gates which I have seen work well with quiet cattle.
Get them used to the gates being fastened shut at first then you can scoot through slowly with bales etc. once the first lot of feed has gone down.

Softly softly catchee parent

Do what you want when it's all signed over to you!

 

[Princess Pooper]

I would also look at internal gates - you may not be able to do it til after turnout if they are already in. Fit some gate post sleeves into your floor so that you can hang a whole line of gates to split the housing. Make sure you can lift the gates as the muck builds up, you should be able to take the whole lot out for mucking out. You need to be able to pen them back so that you can open the yard gates safely on your own. Have the mangers on one side so you can feed without getting knocked over whilst cattle are penned back, is there any way you can get the bales and beet in too. and then spread them when they are feeding. One of the herds I used to work with, where we had a similar problem with having to open gates for bedding which made it a 2 man job even at weekends, we made a 'hole in the wall' 7ft up and put bales in with a foreloader whilst the cows were eating so didn't need to open gates then (there was a feed barrier for feeding). We had square bales so you didn't have to try and roll them from a single point on your own, it didn't take long to just throw the wads out for the cattle to then spread properly.

We do a lot of hand feeding too - using a combination of sacks, buckets, and a big tub on wheels pushed by hand.

 

[choochter]

Here's another suggestion/idea.
Don't buy any more stores this winter, just finish what you've got for this year - see what Pops thinks of that. He might be relieved/grateful of his lightened workload and realise what a burden of labour the cattle were.
Consider converting the old buildings into holiday lets, thereby avoiding permanent new neigbours - could you design them to face away from the road and the farmhouse? There seems to be ground behind that could be used for access/patios.
Income from that could fund a new general purpose ag shed which you could use for cattle if you wished.

 

[-chris-]

Here's another suggestion/idea.
Don't buy any more stores this winter, just finish what you've got for this year - see what Pops thinks of that. He might be relieved/grateful of his lightened workload and realise what a burden of labour the cattle were.
Consider converting the old buildings into holiday lets, thereby avoiding permanent new neigbours - could you design them to face away from the road and the farmhouse? There seems to be ground behind that could be used for access/patios.
Income from that could fund a new general purpose ag shed which you could use for cattle if you wished.

He has told the dealer that he thinks I will want a few more cattle to turn out next year which translated means he would like me to at least keep a few. The farm also has a shoot that dad really enjoys and one wood is directly behind the buildings. There are 2 very good b&bs in the small village already.

 

[KennyO]

What abouit a skid steer with an auger bucket for feeding?

You must have some passageways for feeding by hand- can they be made any wider?

Why do you need to drive into the shed for bedding- can round bales not be dropped over gates?

If you do need to go through gates, and like working dogs, get a dog trained to hold back cattle when gate is open. I have a friend who does this and it works well.

 

[-chris-]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions, the cattle at a push can be done by one person by opening and closing gates but it is time consuming. The calf shed and yard 1 are have a gated yard between them and the gate. We feed the meal in yard 2 and then quickly bolt in with silage/straw/beet. No passageways at all, walls and buildings surrounding all yards and sheds.

 

[-chris-]

Getting a bit muddy after the 2 inches of rain this weekend. Not long before they will be in for the winter.

 

[Nearly]

We've all been on streetview already and seen the sheds

Why not put a straight feed passage with a barrier to the south east of the yards, it looks like access could be possible (might slope away a bit?) and animals could be fastened on there after being fed (once per day) and you could back into yards with bedding machine and the job's sorted!

All of this is just delaying the inevitable. New shed required.
Suggest to dad, knocking down the 'disused' sheds, then when he calls you daft for thinking of destroying such an asset, suggest a new shed.
My father always had to prove to his Dad, that any change was going to be financially viable. It's good for helping discussion in the family too.

Bobcats are marvellous things.

I love telling other people what to do.

Cattle look well.

 

[-chris-]

Also took a picture of the state of the art mill.

 

[Nearly]

I think you've misspelled 'Ark'

Seen worse.