Help wanted, wasted a day , now what

[Fred]

You may or not know i have an area of cover crops, oats and vetch in the ground, and mass of black grass , on some heavy land .

They were sprayed off on Saturday and being a paid up member of BASE i thought i would drill them this morning "on the green "

OOps . thats a no go, whilst dry on top , its a wet mess underneath,

The Horsch with narrow tines just pulled lines like a knife through butter , leaving open slots with the spring wheat open to the elements,

I could harrow it and roll it but that defeats the object of minimal disturbance,

I could roll it ,and hope that this will cover the slots , my fear being the smeared bottom of the trench will dry out and prevent germination,

But i am not happy with whats left ,

Ok use a low disturbance disc drill, off i went to my understanding neighbour with an ageing Moore unidrill,

Borrowed it and no better just left open slots , albeit narrower but still open and wet ,oh and blocked 3 coulters FFS we only went 100 yards.

So is it too wet , pretty obvious that one,

What do i do , what do i use , what have i done wrong

My thoughts are WAIT , but "patience is a virtue seldom in a woman , never in a Middleton "

 

[Simon C]

Sorry to at this Fred, but your mistake was not spraying it off back in November. Drilling heavy land "on the green" in the Spring is hopeless. Trouble is if you have had anything like the weather we have had here, it was impossible to even get on the land with a sprayer after the end of October.

I think now you will just have to wait, but you need to get away from the idea that Spring crops need to be in early in case the land droughts out later on, it's not quite the same in no-till. And think about how long the crop has from emergence to harvest and when that period needs to be to utilise maximum daylight hours, either side of the longest day.

As I always find- The bigger the cover crop, the worse the cash crop afterwords.

 

[Andrew K]

Saw exactly the same this morning on a friends farm, heavy land cover crops are not easy wickets in spring.Claydon straw harrowed stubble looked a much easier prospect for drilling soon.

 

[willy]

Yes this scenario is not great, and yet I am being told this is the way forward for me on heavy land too.

If you see some of the videos of Clive drilling on the green it is possible. But soil type does play a big part, and cover crops hold moisture.

Personally in your position I would disc it and drill in a week, not ideal but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[Badshot]

If there is a lot of cover the ground is not exposed to wind and sun and will be very slow to dry, I have NO experience of cover crops but do have experience of heavy land with thick volunteers and blackgrass in places, these areas never do dry as early as the bare areas, and the crops don't do as well either.

Maybe if they were left to grow till well into april when they are actually transpiring enough to make a difference it might help to dry the ground out, but drilling heavy land mid to end of april, well I'm not brave enough to try it unless it's linseed.

 

[yellow belly]

I would agree that too much cover on heavy land keeps the moisture in until it gets warmer spraying it off in feb march does not help as the ground is shaded from the wind and sun so a small rain 5 to 8 mm or more rewets it

the other problem I found in 2011 a dry year was that the cover (natural regen )on half a field dried out the ground too much in april leading to a lower establishment
the spring rape was planted and it did not rain for 5 weeks the half with out cover established well the half with cover was patchy

the most important aspect of successful notill in the spring is to wait till it is warm enough as well as dry enough cutting wet slots does not work even for spring beans

5 year ago I would have said get spring crops in early but not now

looking back at cropping records over the years patience is the overriding factor in growing a good spring crop if it is too wet drought will not be a problem but doing things that loose moisture can cause dry weather to reduce margins more than later planting

 

[rob1]

Sheep then spray in mid March drill in earlyish April, Simples





As long as you are lucky

 

[SilliamWhale]

Spring wheat can be a tough old plant so don't worry too much if you think you still have the plant population ok.

But it is quite early and cold.

The only spring crop I'd drill into thick greenery would be beans. Spring cereals I'd have grazed off a bit, waited 3 weeks between spray and drill and used lower biomass plants.

P.s. personally I'd get it rolled

 

[Spud]

We flailed our covers to the ground (well most of em) last week, and it's surprising how much the surface has dried since. These are pre beet and potatoes, so it will be interesting to see the difference in plough ability.
There is noticeably more worms, roots and better structure under the covers than the control area.
Very interesting reading the experiences above, I was contemplating a cover after ww, pre spring crop on our heavier land next year. Hmmm

 

[H.Jackson]

Topping helped last spring let the sun and wind get to the soil, we also had tillage radish in the mix the big root helps drain and air the soil imo. Walked wheat stubbles destined for beans today soil 7.2 degrees and shiny right through with water will be while yet.

 

[shakerator]

It's surprising how good stands you can get from slotty drillings if the weather plays ball (wheat oats and beans)
However you would need a shower within 10 days just to weather the slots a bit.

I spread a dusting of compost post drilling to cover any open slots

It's true the surface 2 inches stays wetter but I think your keeping more nutrients in play and improving the subsoil.

 

[Baling Hay]

Get some sheep in?

 

[TWF]

last year my Moore disc drill left open slots on some wet headlands in the spring but it all came up. Often you will find a lot of seed hidden to the side and then pressed in even with the furrow looking open.

Glad we sprayed off in earl Feb. 500ac nearly all in. No cover but BG.

 

[moldengineer]

We have topped our mustard to enable ploughing before potatoes, that looks good with lots of organic matter. We do have mustard, oats and vetch and stubbles to drill with spring beans with a Krause disc drill. Had a test run on the undisturbed soil yesterday and the soil was sticking to the side of the discs, low disturbance it was not!! So its too wet on our medium land and our heavier land will be wetter. Patience is what i keep telling myself and perhaps a willingness to change the crop to be established? The cover crops have been sprayed off, the mustard was already dead after a couple of frosts but some grass growth.

However I do think we will cultivate at least half the acreage just to make some progress with the drilling, I know if we run through with a tine machine with no packer we will be able to do 2 passes with drying in between then go in with a drill. Direct drilling it is not but it does establish a crop, which is the aim surely?

 

[Clive]

Wait would be my advice

drilling on the green changes everything, inc the timing of drilling, its is what makes half decent spring crops possible here as moisture retention is so much better later on in the season

unless you get to the extremes I really don't think date matters as much as we all have in our heads, its all about soil conditions at establishment and weather after drilling

if really struggling and it does get late then sheep, topping or even a light discing - but I would avoid the last option unless I felt faced with no alternative

there is nothing wrong with adapting what you do to suite season or conditions

 

[Thick Farmer]

Plough it in, cultivate a few times and then broadcast the seed before rolling in.

 

[Hartwig]

Same here, regionally first beans already drilled in pre-winter ploughed ground (and a bit lighter as well), which seems pretty dry on top - pictures attached from my field this morning. Good covercrop sprayed off in november like @Simon C keeps saying, but still nearly no bare ground to see. When I put the spade in, soil is well structured but blinking in the sun from water !!

 

[Simon C]

Same here, regionally first beans already drilled in pre-winter ploughed ground (and a bit lighter as well), which seems pretty dry on top - pictures attached from my field this morning. Good covercrop sprayed off in november like @Simon C keeps saying, but still nearly no bare ground to see. When I put the spade in, soil is well structured but blinking in the sun from water !!
View attachment 126896 View attachment 126898

What was the cover crop @Hartwig? Looks like it was well advanced to produce that high carbon residue. As @SorenIlsoe says, residues need to be chopped and on the ground to feed the worms, otherwise they just hang around all winter. I bet there would be problems if you drilled a small seeded crop into that lot.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Plough it in, cultivate a few times and then broadcast the seed before rolling in.

GET OUT BOY!

 

[SilliamWhale]

What was the cover crop @Hartwig? Looks like it was well advanced to produce that high carbon residue. As @SorenIlsoe says, residues need to be chopped and on the ground to feed the worms, otherwise they just hang around all winter. I bet there would be problems if you drilled a small seeded crop into that lot.

I agree with small seed issues - well not totally, I think if warmer stubble turnips would be ok. But also I'd expect any drill to knock most of that stuff down and if it doesn't the rolling after will.

Sometimes every year can be different too.