Herbal ley silage

[Beefcattle]

Beef finishing here, grass diet with barley and blend to balance.
What is people’s opinions on adding herbs and legumes to 3-5 year cut and graze mixes. Could just go for NUM2, but obviously SAM3 is more money. We do 2 cuts first around 20th may which is clamped. 2nd is generally 7-8 weeks growth into bales. It would always be adding herbs and legumes once the ley is established. I am thinking to avoid chicory. What do you think the quality of the silage will be like and how will it feed?
Thankyou

 

[upnortheast]

Advice we had was red clover in silage ground. Herby stuff for grazing.
Ask me next year. ,,

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Chicory is my first choice along with Red Clover High Energy Ryegrass ,on a 3 cut and graze system , bit of Plantain
Can get 3 years easy ,may strugle to get 5 , just don't wilt to long or you will lose leaf on the Chicory, it really does work fantastic on my soils
Mine gets Hammered withsheep all winter ,which is not the best thing to do
Herbs thrive on certain soils so don't listen to negative advice , only way you will know Is try a bit
If you cut at the right stage it will be better than any grass silage you will ever make

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

You need to consider soil types as to how well this will work.
Definitely need the Chicory as Derek says, but on heavy wet land it needs careful management to get these herbal leys to 3 years and they are getting less productive by then.
On lighter dry land you will probably be successful as long as you are not in an area that gets long summer droughts.

 

[paul&mandy]

We did some and I'm sure it didn't like fertilising. The 2 fields side by side had the same fert but I ended up grazing 1 of them and cutting the other, it's faded out now after yr 3 but I think a very limited fertilizer or none at all is the best bet..
I can't remember what we put on maybe 180kg/ha nitram but I think the issue was it smothered the herbs with the grasses.
This was a simple herbal mix out of any schemes.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Ours gets over 300 units on N and a lot of Slurry , Chicory loves muck
But with the Red Clover it don't need all that N ,just the farmers chooses to put it on lol

 

[paul&mandy]

Ours gets over 300 units on N and a lot of Slurry , Chicory loves muck
But with the Red Clover it don't need all that N ,just the farmers chooses to put it on lol

Wonder why all our plantain and chicory disappeared? Only really did 2yrs if that. Not hard grazed with loads of shut up periods. I thought it was the fert and cutting.
Putting a load of full reseed herbel leys and some over seeding herbel too.
It's mainly to graze on very heavy ground.
Full reseeds I'd like to go in the spring if conditions allow due to it's all fallow after turnips at the moment. Over seed ideally after cutting end of may.

 

[Kevtherev]

Wonder why all our plantain and chicory disappeared? Only really did 2yrs if that. Not hard grazed with loads of shut up periods. I thought it was the fert and cutting.
Putting a load of full reseed herbel leys and some over seeding herbel too.
It's mainly to graze on very heavy ground.
Full reseeds I'd like to go in the spring if conditions allow due to it's all fallow after turnips at the moment. Over seed ideally after cutting end of may.

What sort of ground was it on?

 

[DanM]

Wonder why all our plantain and chicory disappeared? Only really did 2yrs if that. Not hard grazed with loads of shut up periods. I thought it was the fert and cutting.
Putting a load of full reseed herbel leys and some over seeding herbel too.
It's mainly to graze on very heavy ground.
Full reseeds I'd like to go in the spring if conditions allow due to it's all fallow after turnips at the moment. Over seed ideally after cutting end of may.

Grazing hard isn’t the issue. It’s set-stocking (especially sheep) as they preferentially graze the herbs. The herbs last longest with short duration (dairy style) grazing rotation and importantly decent rest periods in between.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Wonder why all our plantain and chicory disappeared? Only really did 2yrs if that. Not hard grazed with loads of shut up periods. I thought it was the fert and cutting.
Putting a load of full reseed herbel leys and some over seeding herbel too.
It's mainly to graze on very heavy ground.
Full reseeds I'd like to go in the spring if conditions allow due to it's all fallow after turnips at the moment. Over seed ideally after cutting end of may.

It don't do here on wet heavy land ,it prefers drier soils
A lot of the fields here vary in soil type, you can see to the inch where the soil type changes

 

[paul&mandy]

What sort of ground was it on?

Heavy but on a good slope. Stays fairly dry for clay.

 

[paul&mandy]

Grazing hard isn’t the issue. It’s set-stocking (especially sheep) as they preferentially graze the herbs. The herbs last longest with short duration (dairy style) grazing rotation and importantly decent rest periods in between.

Been very well rested. Maybe not grazed hard enough quickly enough. Sheep probably left on too long not eaten down even then a good rest. Probably have to mess with some rappa wire going forwards.
The block thats going into a full reseed is on permanent electric fencing some smaller fields so could be split up easily.

 

[paul&mandy]

It don't do here on wet heavy land ,it prefers drier soils
A lot of the fields here vary in soil type, you can see to the inch where the soil type changes

Is there a mix that prefers heavier ground? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Is there a mix that prefers heavier ground? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

It's hard to say what to grow without seeing the ground , we buy a few straights and try them first , the main producing herbs are Plantain and Chicory which I try in a small way

SAM3 / GS4 HM.28 Heavy Land Herbal Ley Grass Seed (Acre Pack) (SFI)

2.10kgs Laura Meadow fescue

2.65kgs Toddington Perennial Ryegrass Late Dip

0.80kgs Comer Timothy

1.00kgs Lofa Festulolium

1.20kgs Kora Tall Fescue

1.00kgs Merula Broad Red Clover

0.40kgs Aurora Alsike Clover

0.25kgs Yellow Blossom Sweet Clover

0.20kgs Leo Birdsfoot Trefoil

0.40kgs Alice White Clover

0.30kgs Merlyn White Clover

1.00kgs Common Vetch

0.20kgs Choice Chicory

0.20kgs Tonic Plantain

0.10kgs Yarrow

0.10kgs Sheeps Parsley

0.10kgs Sheeps Burnet

12.00kgs per acre

 

[tinsheet]

It's hard to say what to grow without seeing the ground , we buy a few straights and try them first , the main producing herbs are Plantain and Chicory which I try in a small way

SAM3 / GS4 HM.28 Heavy Land Herbal Ley Grass Seed (Acre Pack) (SFI)

2.10kgs Laura Meadow fescue

2.65kgs Toddington Perennial Ryegrass Late Dip

0.80kgs Comer Timothy

1.00kgs Lofa Festulolium

1.20kgs Kora Tall Fescue

1.00kgs Merula Broad Red Clover

0.40kgs Aurora Alsike Clover

0.25kgs Yellow Blossom Sweet Clover

0.20kgs Leo Birdsfoot Trefoil

0.40kgs Alice White Clover

0.30kgs Merlyn White Clover

1.00kgs Common Vetch

0.20kgs Choice Chicory

0.20kgs Tonic Plantain

0.10kgs Yarrow

0.10kgs Sheeps Parsley

0.10kgs Sheeps Burnet

12.00kgs per acre

Would that be good for one cut then mob graze? 3-5 years?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Would that be good for one cut then mob graze? 3-5 years?

Yes a lot in there is long term, vetch would disappear, Red Clover would struggle after 3

 

[AndrewM]

doesnt Chicory stems poke holes in bales silage wrap?

 

[lloyd]

Ours gets over 300 units on N and a lot of Slurry , Chicory loves muck
But with the Red Clover it don't need all that N ,just the farmers chooses to put it on lol

Much wonder they are bringing in NVZ's in Wales.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

doesnt Chicory stems poke holes in bales silage wrap?

Not if you cut every 4 t 5 weeks

 

[paul&mandy]

It's hard to say what to grow without seeing the ground , we buy a few straights and try them first , the main producing herbs are Plantain and Chicory which I try in a small way

SAM3 / GS4 HM.28 Heavy Land Herbal Ley Grass Seed (Acre Pack) (SFI)

2.10kgs Laura Meadow fescue

2.65kgs Toddington Perennial Ryegrass Late Dip

0.80kgs Comer Timothy

1.00kgs Lofa Festulolium

1.20kgs Kora Tall Fescue

1.00kgs Merula Broad Red Clover

0.40kgs Aurora Alsike Clover

0.25kgs Yellow Blossom Sweet Clover

0.20kgs Leo Birdsfoot Trefoil

0.40kgs Alice White Clover

0.30kgs Merlyn White Clover

1.00kgs Common Vetch

0.20kgs Choice Chicory

0.20kgs Tonic Plantain

0.10kgs Yarrow

0.10kgs Sheeps Parsley

0.10kgs Sheeps Burnet

12.00kgs per acre

Have pm you Derrick