Herbal Leys for Sheep

[d-wales]

FYI, apparently there’s a new Welsh scheme due to be launched in June, paying us to plant such diverse mixes.
Whether it will pay as well as the English scheme (paying £370/ha?) for GS4 I don’t know, but there will be a huge uptake if it does I imagine.

Do you think i could back date my claim??

Just put in 20 acres of a herbal lay

 

[gwi1890]

FYI, apparently there’s a new Welsh scheme due to be launched in June, paying us to plant such diverse mixes.
Whether it will pay as well as the English scheme (paying £370/ha?) for GS4 I don’t know, but there will be a huge uptake if it does I imagine.

Funded by RPW? Is there a link to this anywhere?

 

[som farmer]

The scare about red clover and its effect on fertility in sheep came from observations in NZ with older or unimproved varieties of Subterranean Clover.

I don't think there is any work from the UK which shows that red clover has a high enough oestrogen content to affect fertility.

For many years it was believed that barley and nitrogen were poisonous for sheep.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/orpmcpg13327.pdf

research was done in the 50's, on r/clover and affects on sheep fertility, there is new research being done, that negates that claim, completely. So bigger trials are on the cards.

 

[neilo]

Funded by RPW? Is there a link to this anywhere?

Details not out yet, but due to open on June 20th. It's called 'Growing for the Environment (Autumn Sowing)' and is described as:

A pilot scheme to encourage the growing of crops and pastures to provide an environmental benefit such as protein crops, mixed leys and cover crops for environmental, biodiversity and production benefits.

Details were on a Farming Connect email I received a week or so ago.

 

[CopperBeech]

Don’t know if it’s been said but it doesn’t mean you have to shut up the whole area for 5 weeks, we just rotationally graze it so it’s shut up for 5 weeks during that period.

On another block that’s unsuitable for that we shut it up, take a cut and graze aftermath.

But hve also non grazed and then topped out the chicory stems.

 

[Benr]

Don’t know if it’s been said but it doesn’t mean you have to shut up the whole area for 5 weeks, we just rotationally graze it so it’s shut up for 5 weeks during that period.

On another block that’s unsuitable for that we shut it up, take a cut and graze aftermath.

But hve also non grazed and then topped out the chicory stems.

Do you have to shut up each field number for the same period or can you say split a 10 acre field in 4 blocks and then rotationally graze so each part is shut up for 5 weeks

 

[Collie dog Sid]

That's what I'm going to do with weaned ewes. I have 8 acres that has ewes and lambs on until this morning, I scalped it with the topper yesterday (the rye grass was all heading and swamping everything else) and let the ewes eat the toppings for a day, in 5 weeks I'm going to put 500 weaned ewes and mob graze across it for a couple of weeks.

This is exactly what he is going to do

 

[CopperBeech]

Do you have to shut up each field number for the same period or can you say split a 10 acre field in 4 blocks and then rotationally graze so each part is shut up for 5 weeks

Yep you can do the latter!

 

[JSmith]

Yep you can do the latter!

How do they know if or when you’ve shut it up, do you have to take pictures or….??

 

[neilo]

How do they know if or when you’ve shut it up, do you have to take pictures or….??

It would surely be detailed in the records these schemes oblige you to keep.

 

[som farmer]

It would surely be detailed in the records these schemes oblige you to keep.

eye in the sky
we have had a problem with EA, where the actual measurement, of our slurry lagoon, didn't match, the aerial photograph. Caused rather a lot of hassle, to say the least.

 

[JSmith]

It would surely be detailed in the records these schemes oblige you to keep.

Records you say…

 

[neilo]

Do you think i could back date my claim??

Just put in 20 acres of a herbal lay

The wording will be key.
If it doesn’t mention a seed rate, or any prior cultivations required, I wonder if you might be able to DD in a bit more of the required mix in order to qualify.

 

[som farmer]

plantain sown sept 20, on a very dry slope, the prg died out last year, on this bit, and the plantain self seeded, and became the main plant. As you can see, our dairy cows love it.
but we have included plantain and chicory, in with fert, takes exceedingly well, just grows anywhere we have deliberately spread them, and odd bits where we haven't ! Good job we don't count them as weeds, they grow the same.
and we don't usually graze that tightly, cows love plantain.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

View attachment 1040017
plantain sown sept 20, on a very dry slope, the prg died out last year, on this bit, and the plantain self seeded, and became the main plant. As you can see, our dairy cows love it.
but we have included plantain and chicory, in with fert, takes exceedingly well, just grows anywhere we have deliberately spread them, and odd bits where we haven't ! Good job we don't count them as weeds, they grow the same.
and we don't usually graze that tightly, cows love plantain.

Picture speaks a thousand words , that bare soil is why you can chuck seed on and it grows , dry banks , we could never get that without server machanical intervention, even then the grass grows back so quick it swamps every out , the reason I suppose that parts of this area are named the Milky Way , one of the best grass growing areas in the country
In your situation a herbal ley will do well , dry ground that strugles in mid summer , deep rooters will keep you going with feed , we have only once got in that situation in a lifetime farming ,1976:,
They still work here but not in our situation, taking 3 or 4 cuts of silage and plenty of slurry available , grazing very hard with sheep after , they need a lot of management as well
Two fields I did put in last year , one will have to be sprayed , the weeds in it are a disgrace, the other is cropping well but already lost 50% of the Clover , you can't have it both ways , herbal and intesive

 

[som farmer]

Picture speaks a thousand words , that bare soil is why you can chuck seed on and it grows , dry banks , we could never get that without server machanical intervention, even then the grass grows back so quick it swamps every out , the reason I suppose that parts of this area are named the Milky Way , one of the best grass growing areas in the country
In your situation a herbal ley will do well , dry ground that strugles in mid summer , deep rooters will keep you going with feed , we have only once got in that situation in a lifetime farming ,1976:,
They still work here but not in our situation, taking 3 or 4 cuts of silage and plenty of slurry available , grazing very hard with sheep after , they need a lot of management as well
Two fields I did put in last year , one will have to be sprayed , the weeds in it are a disgrace, the other is cropping well but already lost 50% of the Clover , you can't have it both ways , herbal and intesive

that is the driest ground we have, a steep south facing bank, looking out across the somerset levels, and nothing to break the winds, from the Atlantic, around the corner from there, always been told, you could see the sun, on the sails, of the ships going up/down the Bristol Channel.
always made 'calves' hay there, in OM's day, very often baled day after cutting ! But those herbs are the only thing we have seen, grow back after graze/cut, in a dry time, and we haven't had much moisture recently.
With the introduction of 4 wheel drive tractors, we could, and have, cropped the hill, its about 9 acres, fields above and below have a flat top and bottom, with the big x4 tractors now, no longer, young drivers don't realise how steep it is, and try going up half full trailers, and leave bare soil spin marks, so back to grazing, and hay !

 

[Henery]

We have made silage of the GS4 after the summer “closed” period….. absolute rocket fuel . The plan is now to mob graze…. Return nutrients and carbon and any viable seed will have a chance…… always learning!
third year without buying any nitrogen ……
Permanent pasture doing just fine

 

[som farmer]

We have made silage of the GS4 after the summer “closed” period….. absolute rocket fuel . The plan is now to mob graze…. Return nutrients and carbon and any viable seed will have a chance…… always learning!
third year without buying any nitrogen ……
Permanent pasture doing just fine

interesting to see silage is great, asked the nutritionist this week, about herbal ley silage, very iffy reply, l think if cut at the right time, shouldn't be a problem, use an additive ?
Not got to the no fert stage yet, on those leys, but like the sound of it. Not fully gs4 leys yet, just adding into the mix, more clover, plantain and chicory, grows like weeds.
We have had one of the heaviest 1st cuts, l can remember, even though the tack sheep were here later than normal, grazing platform similar, on approx 1/3 of normal fert use, just hoping its going to keep repeating itself !

 

[Henery]

interesting to see silage is great, asked the nutritionist this week, about herbal ley silage, very iffy reply, l think if cut at the right time, shouldn't be a problem, use an additive ?
Not got to the no fert stage yet, on those leys, but like the sound of it. Not fully gs4 leys yet, just adding into the mix, more clover, plantain and chicory, grows like weeds.
We have had one of the heaviest 1st cuts, l can remember, even though the tack sheep were here later than normal, grazing platform similar, on approx 1/3 of normal fert use, just hoping its going to keep repeating itself !

No additive … never quite bought into that sales BS ( controversial there I know) have to be v picky about the weather…… and don’t ted it, will Knacker protein by knocking leaves off clover,
Learn learn …… those fert sales people …..

 

[JSmith]

We’ve baled the same off a neighbour, mowed it, baled it next day, cows loved it!!
Never has any fert on it, reseeds itself, and spreads seed where you feed the cattle if you roll the bale out