hey up...have nfu council finally realised truth about rt?

[steveR]

apparently the weak NFU statement on GFC falls a long way short of what was debated and discussed at council

seems top table yet again are ignoring their own council and member !

this is just not right , surely even the most loyal nfu members can see this now ?

And why behind closed doors....?

To be hoped that more info will find it's way into the open.

 

[zero]

Alot of Nfu member renewals are direct debit at this time of year. If anyone's in the office keeping out of the rain they should make the effort to cancel it..

 

[Goweresque]

@Goweresque

I have no idea what he's talking about. AFS Ltd has net assets of about £1.3m according to their most recent accounts, and is recorded as a company limited by guarantee, so has no shareholders.

Details here:

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

I can only see that there are 2 ‘subscribers’ in their AOA; NFU and BRC. Please; which company owns AFS? Thanks.
View attachment 1143014

That is the initial set up document, all the way back in 2003. Other members were added later. By 2006 there were 5:

The above document (a certificate of name change in 2006) shows the members then were the NFU, the BRC, the UFU, the Meat and Livestock commission (I assume that became the AHDB in 2007) and Dairy UK. No sign of NFU Scotland, they must have joined at some point after 2006.

 

[tractorsandcows]

Slightly changing the subject, does make one wonder if BFU should try to oust NFU off the RT boards, and BFU be the farmer representatives.

Back to the discussion / NFU's idea to have an independent review of RT governance. Have they been asleep for past 20 years? It's obvious there's a problem with RT structure, and it's a problem because NFU got involved with it in conjunction with BRC etc. , but NFU left themselves in minority board position.

It doesn't take an independent review to work that one out.

I don't know if procedure has been followed by Jim Moseley or BRC with the GFC thing? If procedure has been followed, then there's something wrong with the mechanisms.

Ah well, RT is out of control. Quelle surprise.

This sounds like an excellent idea How do we go about it

 

[Steevo]

Slightly changing the subject, does make one wonder if BFU should try to oust NFU off the RT boards, and BFU be the farmer representatives.

Back to the discussion / NFU's idea to have an independent review of RT governance. Have they been asleep for past 20 years? It's obvious there's a problem with RT structure, and it's a problem because NFU got involved with it in conjunction with BRC etc. , but NFU left themselves in minority board position.

It doesn't take an independent review to work that one out.

I don't know if procedure has been followed by Jim Moseley or BRC with the GFC thing? If procedure has been followed, then there's something wrong with the mechanisms.

Ah well, RT is out of control. Quelle surprise.

Press release sent to Farmers Weekly about BFU raising concern about this and seeking to rally members might help.

Strike while the iron is hot and all that.

 

[livestock 1]

So basically RT collect money from farmers saying they are a non profit organisation their finances are passed on to their holding company which is AFS Ltd which has NFU directors and makes a profit.

 

[ollie989898]

Just bin the fudging red tractor scheme. It is pointless. It doesn't protect against imports- imports come with the fudging thing on anyway. It's just a circus. It was probably designed with the intention of being something a premium could be attached to but that is long gone and hopeless because the market doesn't and won't ever value it.

All RT has done is saddle the entire industry with red tape and pointless inspections. It protects no one- it is not even enshrined in law.

I don't know why any of you bother with the NFU, I really do not. All the movers and shakers with the shiny shoes are in it for the great salaries attached and their job prospects as they go round and round the various seats on offer and pick up their next new role as head of X before a slot in the head of Y. No genuine farmer actually would have time to pish about with this.

Any genuine farmer involved in the NFU would look at the RT scheme, note it is costing the industry millions and providing no benefit and then scrap the scheme from the top down. Anyone who genuinely believes it confers you guys any commercial advantage is nuts.

 

[SilliamWhale]

So basically RT collect money from farmers saying they are a non profit organisation their finances are passed on to their holding company which is AFS Ltd which has NFU directors and makes a profit.

Anyone can call themselves a not for profit company if you make sure you spend it all on wages etc.

I think strictly speaking we pay NSF cMI and they then pass on the royalty to Red Tractor which becomes the RT slush fund. They get a steady 4 million a year I think but of course with the new scheme that could end up being a lot more - and remember they get the farmer to do all the legwork on it.

But for all the digging around I'm still not clear what I'm a "member" of - is it RT or NSF CMI scheme? If I'm a member of RT then how come its all so secret?

 

[Steevo]

Anyone can call themselves a not for profit company if you make sure you spend it all on wages etc.

I think strictly speaking we pay NSF cMI and they then pass on the royalty to Red Tractor which becomes the RT slush fund. They get a steady 4 million a year I think but of course with the new scheme that could end up being a lot more - and remember they get the farmer to do all the legwork on it.

But for all the digging around I'm still not clear what I'm a "member" of - is it RT or NSF CMI scheme? If I'm a member of RT then how come its all so secret?

 

[sjt01]

I don't know why any of you bother with the NFU

I have just cancelled the direct debit and called the local and regional offices to tell them why.

 

[livestock 1]

Anyone can call themselves a not for profit company if you make sure you spend it all on wages etc.

I think strictly speaking we pay NSF cMI and they then pass on the royalty to Red Tractor which becomes the RT slush fund. They get a steady 4 million a year I think but of course with the new scheme that could end up being a lot more - and remember they get the farmer to do all the legwork on it.

But for all the digging around I'm still not clear what I'm a "member" of - is it RT or NSF CMI scheme? If I'm a member of RT then how come its all so secret?

I was told yesterday rt was owned by the NFU
I’m not sure how many NFU folks are directors of rt’s holding company but it’s looking likely that’s right

 

[SilliamWhale]

I was told yesterday rt was owned by the NFU
I’m not sure how many NFU folks are directors of rt’s holding company but it’s looking likely that’s right

They do own it, yes.

You can see in the companies house how it is owned etc. I think someone has already put it up.

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

I think current "directors" of RT with strong declared NFU ties would be Tom Bradshaw, Kit the Burglar, Alistair Mackintosh and Tim Lock. In the past there has been Guy Smith, Blenky, Stuart Roberts, Kendall, Batters etc. That in itself is not a problem, necessarily although as I have long stated the optics of that never looked very good because they are trying to ride two horses at the same time, I doubt even the money was worth it long term. Always felt Guy had turned from poacher to gamekeeper when he went in and that felt quite unprincipled to a lot of farmers on this forum and we told him so.

There are of course a raft of other directors as well, I think its worth remembering that these directors would have almost certainly been likely to gain financially from any GFC coffers coming into the AFS account, but we are unclear what they are paid at the moment for the direction they have been providing.

 

[milkloss]

I have no idea what he's talking about. AFS Ltd has net assets of about £1.3m according to their most recent accounts, and is recorded as a company limited by guarantee, so has no shareholders.

Details here:

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ASSURED FOOD STANDARDS - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

That is the initial set up document, all the way back in 2003. Other members were added later. By 2006 there were 5:
View attachment 1143028
The above document (a certificate of name change in 2006) shows the members then were the NFU, the BRC, the UFU, the Meat and Livestock commission (I assume that became the AHDB in 2007) and Dairy UK. No sign of NFU Scotland, they must have joined at some point after 2006.

Goes back further than that. Local man Jonathan Peter tipples was pushing acc many years ago....... premium for your crop etc etc.

have a look at assured beef and lamb Ltd and you'll see it goes back to 1992. What a tangled web they weave..... I wonder if many pockets got lined along the way?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Goes back further than that. Local man Jonathan Peter tipples was pushing acc many years ago....... premium for your crop etc etc.

have a look at assured beef and lamb Ltd and you'll see it goes back to 1992. What a tangled web they weave..... I wonder if many pockets got lined along the way?

And back then we were all clearly told it was ONLY about food safety.....

 

[SilliamWhale]

Goes back further than that. Local man Jonathan Peter tipples was pushing acc many years ago....... premium for your crop etc etc.

have a look at assured beef and lamb Ltd and you'll see it goes back to 1992. What a tangled web they weave..... I wonder if many pockets got lined along the way?

I honestly doubt it was a fortune. But it was enough to want to tread on the heads of fellow farmers' rights of access to marketplace and be able to do the doublespeak on behalf of the BRC and AIC to get there. I think if you are fairly fluent with your principles it wouldn't be hard to justify

 

[SilliamWhale]

And back then we were all clearly told it was ONLY about food safety.....

It wasn't though. Food Safety is a FSA issue.

 

[ollie989898]

Cancel your NFU membership, cancel any insurance policies you have with them, hit them where it hurts. They don't seem to have ever got the message in the last 20 years. I can't think they will now. It's pointless even engaging with them. If you want someone to get involved and truly represent you then you will have to lend power to the elbow of the BFU. There is no other option, no alternative path or dialogue.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

We’re in real danger of being taken for fools and stitched up like kippers

 

[livestock 1]

We’re in real danger of being taken for fools and stitched up like kippers

As reluctant as I was to mention any of this I feel if it’s not talked about we will be looked upon as fools and there for the taking

 

[livestock 1]

If the true money trail was appealing to look at it wouldn’t need to be lost within a warren of holding companies and such like
The other thing is when folks on here are wondering why the NFU hasn’t jumped in to protect its paying members this would appear to be the answer