High horse power four cylinders can’t sustainably do the same job as a larger six pot of similar HP. Tell me I’m wrong

[dave mountain]

One of the best lugging tractors we ever had was a 4 pot zetor 9111 turbo, it was an absolute animal, also one of the sweetest sounding engines, it was replaced by a 5130 straight 6, and frankly thats been the best tractor weve ever owned.

Case 5130 I assume? Absolutely brilliant tractor, family member had one on 19000 hrs and the engine was sweet as a nut, then it caught fire due to hay/straw where it shouldn't have been. They aren't very impressed with the little NH t5 that replaced it, even though it is more powerful on paper.

 

[marco]

Look at this month's classic tractor, a twenty year old fendt 816 absolutely destroyed a modern 516. You can talk about hp all you want, but as carol Shelby said.... People buy horsepower but drive torque.

 

[clbarclay]

What is the need for high torque at low revs in a tractor engine when coupled to a CVT transmission?

 

[Cowabunga]

The 6470 is also incredibly thirsty, far more so than my t7 on the same work. Granted it does pull though.

Just out of interest, why are you running 6s? Seems from your other posts that you prefer 4s?

It really isn't thirsty. It just has an incredibly small fuel tank for its power output, so needs refilling too often when worked hard. It holds 145litres in the standard tank, or only 31 gallons. This compares with the slightly less powerful and significantly lazier 6465 six cylinder having a 270 litre 60 gallon tank which is as near and damnit to double the fuel capacity.

I am running six cylinder tractors because 160 to 200hp four cylinder tractors were not available twenty years ago and because I cannot stand small fuel tanks, as I have mentioned many times over the years and again in this current topic.

 

[Cowabunga]

What is the need for high torque at low revs in a tractor engine when coupled to a CVT transmission?

Lower fuel consumption with an adequate torque reserve to overcome sudden overloads.

 

[Cowabunga]

Case 5130 I assume? Absolutely brilliant tractor, family member had one on 19000 hrs and the engine was sweet as a nut, then it caught fire due to hay/straw where it shouldn't have been. They aren't very impressed with the little NH t5 that replaced it, even though it is more powerful on paper.

5130 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding unless a turbo kit was bolted on to make it a 5140 equivalent or more.

 

[clbarclay]

Okay, I did wonder how quickly cvts could react to sudden changes.

 

[J 1177]

5130 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding unless a turbo kit was bolted on to make it a 5140 equivalent or more.

Nope ours has always been lively. It was a demo tractor so we always thought the discs in the rotary pump had been changed.
Its anything but flat.

 

[J 1177]

Case 5130 I assume? Absolutely brilliant tractor, family member had one on 19000 hrs and the engine was sweet as a nut, then it caught fire due to hay/straw where it shouldn't have been. They aren't very impressed with the little NH t5 that replaced it, even though it is more powerful on paper.

 

[dave mountain]

5130 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding unless a turbo kit was bolted on to make it a 5140 equivalent or more.

This one had no turbo but it would easily pull away from my t6010 when both were loaded with bales. Agree with j1177

 

[marco]

What is the need for high torque at low revs in a tractor engine when coupled to a CVT transmission?

If it's running a silage harvester and meets a lump or similar situation

 

[dave mountain]

It really isn't thirsty. It just has an incredibly small fuel tank for its power output, so needs refilling too often when worked hard. It holds 145litres in the standard tank, or only 31 gallons. This compares with the slightly less powerful and significantly lazier 6465 six cylinder having a 270 litre 60 gallon tank which is as near and damnit to double the fuel capacity.

I am running six cylinder tractors because 160 to 200hp four cylinder tractors were not available twenty years ago and because I cannot stand small fuel tanks, as I have mentioned many times over the years and again in this current topic.

Neighbor had a 6470 and does flail topping for me. When he used my t7 with his flail to do some topping for me (his 6470 was busy) it used 2-3 litres/hour less. Same fields, same driver, same topper. He has since changed the 6470 for something else.

Fair enough I just wondered the reason.

 

[Cowabunga]

Okay, I did wonder how quickly cvts could react to sudden changes.

It depends in what mode its being driven and the settings made by the driver and the load. They are immune from stalling though.

 

[ollie989898]

Look at this month's classic tractor, a twenty year old fendt 816 absolutely destroyed a modern 516. You can talk about hp all you want, but as carol Shelby said.... People buy horsepower but drive torque.

A modern 516 has far more design considerations than the 816 though. An engine designed with zero consideration for NOx or particulate output is a lot easier than one that has to be clean.

 

[Wellytrack]

Look at this month's classic tractor, a twenty year old fendt 816 absolutely destroyed a modern 516. You can talk about hp all you want, but as carol Shelby said.... People buy horsepower but drive torque.

As impressive as those Engines are they definitely have had their bean flicked.

 

[spider mike]

When it comes to shear lugging power and hanging on my tier 4 4cyl 150hp massey cannot compete with my 15 Yr old 6480 when pulling a press or rapid up some of our banks. They have the same wheelbase the 6615 is slightly heavier and can drink like a fish. The cab is nicer to live with though. But the 6480 is quieter and its a smoother noise too. The 4cyl has a real rasping sound in the cab.

 

[daveydiesel1]

When it comes to shear lugging power and hanging on my tier 4 4cyl 150hp massey cannot compete with my 15 Yr old 6480 when pulling a press or rapid up some of our banks. They have the same wheelbase the 6615 is slightly heavier and can drink like a fish. The cab is nicer to live with though. But the 6480 is quieter and its a smoother noise too. The 4cyl has a real rasping sound in the cab.

Iv no real experience on the larger 4 pot sisu. Only 4 pot sisu we owned was a 4455 which is a A series valtra and once it was run in it was lively and frugal. But me da took a mans 6616 on quite a long journey doin 50k and did the same journey on our zetor doin 40k both tractors pulling the same load and the zetor used roughly half the diesel give or take a few litres which we were surprised as the massey was goin faster at less revs

 

[Suckndiesel]

Iv no real experience on the larger 4 pot sisu. Only 4 pot sisu we owned was a 4455 which is a A series valtra and once it was run in it was lively and frugal. But me da took a mans 6616 on quite a long journey doin 50k and did the same journey on our zetor doin 40k both tractors pulling the same load and the zetor used roughly half the diesel give or take a few litres which we were surprised as the massey was goin faster at less revs

It takes a fair bit more fuel to maintain that extra 10k speed

 

[Fendtbro]

Gearing and/or auto transmission. The Ranger 2.2 diesel, which is my equivalent of your HiLux has an auto box so I can compare it to the Land Cruiser directly. The Ranger engine is tuned so as not to rev quickly off idle. It just won't do it and is a pain in the but pulling over three tons [I had 4.5 tons behind it the other day] out of a junction up a slight hill. This is why I chose an auto, because the torque converter partly compensates. It has nothing to do with the number of cylinders, it is to avoid diesel soot blocking the DPF. Once under way it pulls like a train. A train with only 350Nm admittedly.

Yea, auto will solve the stalling issue.. but 3k more to buy and quite a lot more to go wrong. Once you’ve run an 80 series with a manual box, you don’t want anything else.. hilux not even any better on fuel when towing and rides terribly with and without trailer. Even our local haulier went back to a manual box for his main lorry.. just so cost effective to run.

 

[daveydiesel1]

It takes a fair bit more fuel to maintain that extra 10k speed

The salesmen dont tell ye that lol