High price rams bad publicity

[DB67]

Dad went to a Blackie sale this year. Just for a day out and old times sake. He hasn't been to one in about 16 years.
His verdict was they are scrunty little buggers not worth bidding on these days. Saddened to see how the breed has changed

They are getting smaller and the horns are getting bigger making them harder to lamb,so the dearest tups are the smallest with the biggest horns

Did you see the lamb that made 160k? One of the biggest blackie lambs to ever grace a market I’d say. Huge powerful sheep with a good coat and good horn. Even Archie Hamilton said it was “what a blackie should be”.

Very few of the dear lambs were anything other than big with good skins and clean. Lambs and shearlings alike. And there has been a noticed difference in horns, tight horns aren’t wanted.

 

[backin black]

Thought some of the pens of shearlings at Lanark & Stiring were exceptional commercial sheep! Some folk just like to criticise without actually seeing them!

 

[Paul E]

What's the logic behind the sticky out horns? Horns are a real pain when handling sheep, must be far worse when they're sticking out at right angles!

Might be something to do with not having them growing into thier faces and, ultimately, killing them.

 

[M-J-G]

Might be something to do with not having them growing into thier faces and, ultimately, killing them.

More to do with a blowtorch and a spring or ratchet strap.

 

[Paul E]

More to do with a blowtorch and a spring or ratchet strap.

Yes I know, just can't type sarcastically.

 

[Top Tip.]

Did you see the lamb that made 160k? One of the biggest blackie lambs to ever grace a market I’d say. Huge powerful sheep with a good coat and good horn. Even Archie Hamilton said it was “what a blackie should be”.

Very few of the dear lambs were anything other than big with good skins and clean. Lambs and shearlings alike. And there has been a noticed difference in horns, tight horns aren’t wanted.

I have already said that I thought the 160k lamb was a very good sheep. It is just a shame it has taken them so long to realise that trying to breed them like shetlands was the road to nowhere.

 

[M-J-G]

Did you see the lamb that made 160k? One of the biggest blackie lambs to ever grace a market I’d say. Huge powerful sheep with a good coat and good horn. Even Archie Hamilton said it was “what a blackie should be”.

Very few of the dear lambs were anything other than big with good skins and clean. Lambs and shearlings alike. And there has been a noticed difference in horns, tight horns aren’t wanted.

Plenty of Blackies these days are capable of growing and producing a U grade carcass.

I don't think that size is a problem for the breed.

Plenty of horn issues though.

 

[Woolless]

How the hell do you performance record hill blackies? First thing the ewe does when you go near her new born lamb is feck off over the heather.

Presumably these performance recorded sheep live on grass, not the hills?

If I have to lamb a blackie, she's ear notched for culling, and so is the lamb.

Selecting bigger framed tups from hill farms with little in bye over the last ten years has increased the carcass weight of my bound stock heather hill.

Lambs have increased from a 13kg average killing weight to now average 18kg. The majority finish off grass by Christmas with minimal concentrate for the tail enders.

How will buying a softer in bye bred and reared tup with "good figures" help us hill places who still actually farm the heather?

@Davy McCracken should be able to tell you more about the practicalities.

 

[Woolless]

Thought some of the pens of shearlings at Lanark & Stiring were exceptional commercial sheep! Some folk just like to criticise without actually seeing them!

Fair comment, I wasn't at any of the sales. Just going by pics and comments made by commercial Blackie flockmasters and store buyers over the last few years. I'm very glad to hear that the penny has dropped with some of those aiming to breed tups for the commercial man.

 

[shearerlad]

I’m not necessarily criticising the sheep that are making the big money, although imo there is still far to much emphasis on “heids and horn.” What does get me is the huge prices paid for them.

I don’t understand the prices paid for both black faced-horned breeds, even the commercial prices, considering

A. value of their offspring either through the store or prime route,

B.percentage of lambs to sell against ewes tupped compared to “cross sheep” and maybe looking forward

C. hill farming is the part of the industry most reliant on sub. How is that sub justifiable to public and politicians when those prices are paid for tups???

 

[Nithsdale]

Did you see the lamb that made 160k? One of the biggest blackie lambs to ever grace a market I’d say. Huge powerful sheep with a good coat and good horn. Even Archie Hamilton said it was “what a blackie should be”.

Very few of the dear lambs were anything other than big with good skins and clean. Lambs and shearlings alike. And there has been a noticed difference in horns, tight horns aren’t wanted.

Seen a picture of its head, haven't seen anything else if it. Look forward to the picture in the TSF

All I did was pass on my dad's opinion of the FEMALE sale he went to this year, after a 16year absence - from a man who grew up around Blackies ..


The broad horns (or spread shaping ) has been in fashion for 4-5 years now... no doubt in another 4-5 years something else will take it's place

 

[CharcoalWally]

Ho hum .

The Blackface breed is a very broad church, and those of us involved in the breed can choose for ourselves where we want to get involved.

Rather than prattling on about tup sales that they never attended , I'd suggest that people pay a visit to the Dalmally cast ewe sale, ;when the market was full to the rafters on a glorious September afternoon of commercially grounded sheep and shepherds. Hard working ewes off the hardest, wettest hills in Argyll and the surrounding regions. And the islands.

In conversation with these people, I never heard anyone discussing tup prices and no- one was turning out ewes horns, (much to my disappointment, as I thought through reading this forum that everyone would have been at it, )

Just a market full of commercial ewes being knocked down to a busy ringside of commercial buyers. Yes, there are a few pens of so called "breeders ewes, "but they're clearly just an annoyance to the commercial 'herds .

Don't think a lot of these guys will be getting involved in £100, 000+ tups, but instead are focused on breeding commercially scaled, tight skinned, working ewes to live on the hills.

Two different world's, and I wouldn't insult them by suggesting otherwise.

 

[jamesy]

https://www.facebook.com/342382261712/posts/10156058222646713/

 

[Top Tip.]

Ho hum .

The Blackface breed is a very broad church, and those of us involved in the breed can choose for ourselves where we want to get involved.

Rather than prattling on about tup sales that they never attended , I'd suggest that people pay a visit to the Dalmally cast ewe sale, ;when the market was full to the rafters on a glorious September afternoon of commercially grounded sheep and shepherds. Hard working ewes off the hardest, wettest hills in Argyll and the surrounding regions. And the islands.

In conversation with these people, I never heard anyone discussing tup prices and no- one was turning out ewes horns, (much to my disappointment, as I thought through reading this forum that everyone would have been at it, )

Just a market full of commercial ewes being knocked down to a busy ringside of commercial buyers. Yes, there are a few pens of so called "breeders ewes, "but they're clearly just an annoyance to the commercial 'herds .

Don't think a lot of these guys will be getting involved in £100, 000+ tups, but instead are focused on breeding commercially scaled, tight skinned, working ewes to live on the hills.

Two different world's, and I wouldn't insult them by suggesting otherwise.

I would agree with most of your post apart from your last sentence ,these two worlds are very much connected,with the genetics from these big priced tups filtering down to the the ordinary commercial flocks in the west and to my mind these commercial flocks have been done a disservice by the breeders at the top following their own agenda with little thought to the commercial realities of the job.

 

[Nithsdale]

I would agree with most of your post apart from your last sentence ,these two worlds are very much connected,with the genetics from these big priced tups filtering down to the the ordinary commercial flocks in the west and to my mind these commercial flocks have been done a disservice by the breeders at the top following their own agenda with little thought to the commercial realities of the job.

Same story in any/every breed.


Lost count the number of commercial Blackie flocks down here who have had their head turned by these big prices and are trying to chase the dream

 

[CharcoalWally]

I would agree with most of your post apart from your last sentence ,these two worlds are very much connected,with the genetics from these big priced tups filtering down to the the ordinary commercial flocks in the west and to my mind these commercial flocks have been done a disservice by the breeders at the top following their own agenda with little thought to the commercial realities of the job.

That's the point about the breed being a broad church. There is a huge range in genetics available to choose from. Reread @DrDunc 's earlier post to see how commercially minded farmers work.

I've know plenty of people in the breed who aren't working with these bloodlines as they only buy off commercial hill flocks.

 

[Top Tip.]

That's the point about the breed being a broad church. There is a huge range in genetics available to choose from. Reread @DrDunc 's earlier post to see how commercially minded farmers work.

I've know plenty of people in the breed who aren't working with these bloodlines as they only buy off commercial hill flocks.

That might be so but the reality is that as long as blackie wedder lambs are averaging £30 of these commercial flocks there is no future for them. The genetics are out there to breed lambs that will go to 20 kg plus but they are scarce and until there use becomes wide spread the breed will struggle.

 

[M-J-G]

That might be so but the reality is that as long as blackie wedder lambs are averaging £30 of these commercial flocks there is no future for them. The genetics are out there to breed lambs that will go to 20 kg plus but they are scarce and until there use becomes wide spread the breed will struggle.

Will any genetics do that on a hard hill that gets 2.5m of rain per annum

I believe there is a reason why a lot if these farms don't have higher performing genetics, the environment will struggle to sustain them.

 

[CharcoalWally]

That might be so but the reality is that as long as blackie wedder lambs are averaging £30 of these commercial flocks there is no future for them. The genetics are out there to breed lambs that will go to 20 kg plus but they are scarce and until there use becomes wide spread the breed will struggle.

A quick look at a store report from the last week or two shows Blackie lambs averaging a fair bit more than £30.

So are these folk just stupid? Maybe not. Blackie cast ewes at Dalmally were averaging comfortably £15 - £20 over the Cheviot entry. That will be factored in.

 

[Hilly]

A quick look at a store report from the last week or two shows Blackie lambs averaging a fair bit more than £30.

So are these folk just stupid? Maybe not. Blackie cast ewes at Dalmally were averaging comfortably £15 - £20 over the Cheviot entry. That will be factored in.

Out of interest what did the Dalmally Cast ewes average ?