Hill Cows

[unlacedgecko]

Thought I’d start a new thread.

I’m sure most have seen this video before but I find it fascinating.

 

[unlacedgecko]

What defines a hill? Is it height? Climate? Lack of improvement or all 3?


@CharcoalWally @Nithsdale Farmer @exmoor dave

In my mind, the “hill” was always the UK equivalent of the US “range”. Over there the Angus and her crosses are the dominant rangeland cow. Why is the UK Angus so unsuitable compared to her American cousin?

 

[unlacedgecko]

There are some still wish a go at it.

The problem is the Highland clearances have been rumbling on for almost 300 years, and are still happening today.

Please can you expand on this?

 

[Nithsdale]

Please can you expand on this?

The hills are all large estates in Scotland.

Farmers/'herds/families are being removed from the hills still to this day by estates, with no-one replacing them. Where once upon a time each hill had a family on farm and employed a 'herd or 2 looking after a couple thousand ewes and maybe a few cows... Now many hills are next to empty, running a handful ewes just as a tick blanket for grouse management. There is no opportunity to get on the land and have a go, as the estates are closed shops.

The Highland clearances started out with crofters being moved on to make way for the sheep on the back of wool prices. Crofts amalgamated into larger farms of good inbye land and the communal grazing on a hill tied to the new farm... now those farmers and herds have been moved on - secure tenancies bought out, theyve retiredror died. The estates do not re-let the farms with the sheep and cattle then removed. The better land planted with trees and what's left is kept for shooting.

The land owners don't want anyone there. The only way to 'restock' the hills again would be to break up the estates and have each hill farm owned.

 

[Hilly]

Thought I’d start a new thread.

I’m sure most have seen this video before but I find it fascinating.

Got 4 immediate neighbours doing very similar.

 

[exmoor dave]

What defines a hill? Is it height? Climate? Lack of improvement or all 3?


@CharcoalWally @Nithsdale Farmer @exmoor dave

In my mind, the “hill” was always the UK equivalent of the US “range”. Over there the Angus and her crosses are the dominant rangeland cow. Why is the UK Angus so unsuitable compared to her American cousin?

I'd call a "hill", any area of moorland.

Moorland could be anything from rocky scrubby grass to heather moors to vast areas of purple moor grass.

Plus of course the obligatory areas of gorse, bracken and trees of varying type.


Moor we winter graze is dry ground, no peat, exposed on all sides, 2 sides include huge sea cliffs, big areas of open heather.....bigger areas of gorse cover some good areas of grass.
Fair bit of bracken, but that's not such a problem for winter grazing.

 

[exmoor dave]

What defines a hill? Is it height? Climate? Lack of improvement or all 3?


@CharcoalWally @Nithsdale Farmer @exmoor dave

In my mind, the “hill” was always the UK equivalent of the US “range”. Over there the Angus and her crosses are the dominant rangeland cow. Why is the UK Angus so unsuitable compared to her American cousin?

Remind me after Nov & I'll give you a tour

 

[Woolless]

The hills are all large estates in Scotland.

Farmers/'herds/families are being removed from the hills still to this day by estates, with no-one replacing them. Where once upon a time each hill had a family on farm and employed a 'herd or 2 looking after a couple thousand ewes and maybe a few cows... Now many hills are next to empty, running a handful ewes just as a tick blanket for grouse management. There is no opportunity to get on the land and have a go, as the estates are closed shops.

The Highland clearances started out with crofters being moved on to make way for the sheep on the back of wool prices. Crofts amalgamated into larger farms of good inbye land and the communal grazing on a hill tied to the new farm... now those farmers and herds have been moved on - secure tenancies bought out, theyve retiredror died. The estates do not re-let the farms with the sheep and cattle then removed. The better land planted with trees and what's left is kept for shooting.

The land owners don't want anyone there. The only way to 'restock' the hills again would be to break up the estates and have each hill farm owned.

Just had a cracking week on holiday near Inverness and was glad to see that even the harder bits round there were still well stocked. Some good stock too, cracking suckled calves in particular. I realise that this area would be significantly easier than further west and north, however.

 

[Nithsdale]

Just had a cracking week on holiday near Inverness and was glad to see that even the harder bits round there were still well stocked. Some good stock too, cracking suckled calves in particular. I realise that this area would be significantly easier than further west and north, however.

Was up around Ft William near the end of may... didn't see much stock up there.

 

[Woolless]

Got 4 immediate neighbours doing very similar.

Yes, a man at the Borders grazing group was doing much the same. There's a lot to be said for the system although, as far as the video goes, I would always prefer homebred replacements but I can see how that would complicate matters.

 

[Woolless]

Was up around Ft William near the end of may... didn't see much stock up there.

Fair comment. We were there a couple of years ago and I did notice that.

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Great Video. Simple system.
I am doing weanling to store on my hill (year one). hoping it will work

 

[Whitepeak]

What defines a hill? Is it height? Climate? Lack of improvement or all 3?


@CharcoalWally @Nithsdale Farmer @exmoor dave

In my mind, the “hill” was always the UK equivalent of the US “range”. Over there the Angus and her crosses are the dominant rangeland cow. Why is the UK Angus so unsuitable compared to her American cousin?

Guessing it’ll have to be a combination. Our farm ranges from 1000ft to 1400ft but it’s all good improved limestone grassland. There’s probably a lot of “Hill” farms that are much lower.

 

[CharcoalWally]

What defines a hill? Is it height? Climate? Lack of improvement or all 3?

Yes , hill ground has all these features, it's high, generally wetter, and the cattle on the hill usually have to survive on less quality grazing than a low ground cow would ever encounter. Bear in mind that there are degrees of hill - some are more like Green upland, some are pure heather.

The reason he UK AA is unsuitable for rough hill ground is because they've never been bred for it. Look at her breed name. Born and bred on the favourable, East Coast climate of the counties of Aberdeeshire and Angus.

Recent breed development has focused on low ground traits - such as large mature size, quick growth and, against original breed type, a touch of that oh so saleable muscle in certain strains.

Not saying that the AA can't do a job in certain situitions, but my opinions are influenced by my Westerners view . I would find other cattle have considerably more appeal for life on the hills of the West.

 

[Woolless]

Thought I’d start a new thread.

I’m sure most have seen this video before but I find it fascinating.

Just wondering how the sheep fit into this system? Are they just on another bit of hill?

 

[DB67]

Just wondering how the sheep fit into this system? Are they just on another bit of hill?

His sheep are good (blackies) Think they run on pretty good ground as far as hill goes.

A great sight when they sell there cattle. Very nice Charolais calves. Big lots of 12-15 in a pen at a time and he’s right in the middle of them with not a worry of being kicked!

 

[jendan]

His sheep are good (blackies) Think they run on pretty good ground as far as hill goes.

A great sight when they sell there cattle. Very nice Charolais calves. Big lots of 12-15 in a pen at a time and he’s right in the middle of them with not a worry of being kicked!

.......theres a first time for everything.......

 

[jamesy]

Was up around Ft William near the end of may... didn't see much stock up there.

Due to an accident on A9 had to cut across from Dalwhinie are to Fort William last week. Commented to the wife how there was not a ewe to be seen.

 

[Dave6170]

We were in argyll last summer and i hardly seen an animal where we were. Remember 1 bunch of cows that was it.
1000s of sheep have gone off the hills up here. Never were that many cattle on them though

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes , hill ground has all these features, it's high, generally wetter, and the cattle on the hill usually have to survive on less quality grazing than a low ground cow would ever encounter. Bear in mind that there are degrees of hill - some are more like Green upland, some are pure heather.

The reason he UK AA is unsuitable for rough hill ground is because they've never been bred for it. Look at her breed name. Born and bred on the favourable, East Coast climate of the counties of Aberdeeshire and Angus.

Recent breed development has focused on low ground traits - such as large mature size, quick growth and, against original breed type, a touch of that oh so saleable muscle in certain strains.

Not saying that the AA can't do a job in certain situitions, but my opinions are influenced by my Westerners view . I would find other cattle have considerably more appeal for life on the hills of the West.

I am always struck by how different the British AA look in pictures, compared to the ones we have down here.
Other than the head and colour they are almost completely different looking animals, your explanation makes total sense as to why that's the case.