How do I breed my own wool shedders?

[CopperBeech]

Is there a good place to go if you have bad lambs.

We sell everything dead weight. I reckon if I took my shedding lambs to Cirencester which is our local
Market I would be giving them away!

 

[M-J-G]

That’s interesting, we run about 1000 easy cares on one farm, alongside 1000 mules. Everything goes dead weight and you wouldn’t be able to pick out lambs from either group on conformation, weight or fat class.

I have no doubt that a good terminal will improve them greatly.
But the replacement ewe lamb's need to be bred, and their brothers have to be sold.

 

[CharcoalWally]

It's rarely that way up here, buyers generally buy good lambs regardless of cosmetics.

My friend puts Hampshire rams onto some Zwartbles ewes, so the resultant lambs are the anti-christ to what the "Trendy Wendys" are aiming for, being brown with wool on top of their heads, yet they are keeping up with Texel lambs of a similar weight.

^^^ This. In spades... If they're right, they're right.

 

[CopperBeech]

I have no doubt that a good terminal will improve them greatly.
But the replacement ewe lamb's need to be bred, and their brothers have to be sold.

You are of course right.

Have been buying recorded exlana rams with an eye on car as traits.

Have seen a definite improvement, generally killing them at R and U grades and 18-21 kilos off forage.

Will be getting the A team in again in about 3 weeks for ovi vac, will try to get some photos of the whether lambs and aome weights.

 

[sean m]

You are of course right.

Have been buying recorded exlana rams with an eye on car as traits.

Have seen a definite improvement, generally killing them at R and U grades and 18-21 kilos off forage.

Will be getting the A team in again in about 3 weeks for ovi vac, will try to get some photos of the whether lambs and aome weights.

this thread is hilarious,everybody wants to knock the easycare,never a mention of mule wether lambs who's dam's only criteria is to breed dark sharp headed lambs,the lameness mastitis poor conformation and lack of recording is never recalled,love it

 

[M-J-G]

this thread is hilarious,everybody wants to knock the easycare,never a mention of mule wether lambs who's dam's only criteria is to breed dark sharp headed lambs,the lameness mastitis poor conformation and lack of recording is never recalled,love it

You speak of pampered poodle type mules who's mothers never spend time on heather.
If you go to proper hill units where stock die if they aren't fit for the environment you won't find as many people worrying about markings.
A fair few Scotch mule wether lambs make U's, but I don't recall this thread being about mules.

If you want to bring other breeds in as a comparison then fine. At the market where I saw the shedding lambs being given away, there were Zwartbles lambs being sold, late March born, most were triplets and they were 8kgs heavier and made £18 more that the shedders.
Off similar units and around the same age, Zwartbles may have been a bit younger if anything.

 

[sean m]

You speak of pampered poodle type mules who's mothers never spend time on heather.
If you go to proper hill units where stock die if they aren't fit for the environment you won't find as many people worrying about markings.
A fair few Scotch mule wether lambs make U's, but I don't recall this thread being about mules.

If you want to bring other breeds in as a comparison then fine. At the market where I saw the shedding lambs being given away, there were Zwartbles lambs being sold, late March born, most were triplets and they were 8kgs heavier and made £18 more that the shedders.
Off similar units and around the same age, Zwartbles may have been a bit younger if anything.

i'm not looking to argue,just pointing out that no breed is without it's faults,just some people do there shepherding through rose tinted glasses,it's not always the market toppers that earn the most money,in my humble opinion

 

[CharcoalWally]

this thread is hilarious,everybody wants to knock the easycare,never a mention of mule wether lambs who's dam's only criteria is to breed dark sharp headed lambs,the lameness mastitis poor conformation and lack of recording is never recalled,love it

Calm down. Every breed discussed on here gets put under the microscope, for it's good, and bad points. That's why it's called a discussion forum. Your breed can't be any different I'm afraid. If you think we're all going to agree.,then you're in the wrong place.

 

[sean m]

Calm down. Every breed discussed on here gets put under the microscope, for it's good, and bad points. That's why it's called a discussion forum. Your breed can't be any different I'm afraid. If you think we're all going to agree.,then you're in the wrong place.

l'm calm,just find it hilarious that one pen of crap easycare lambs means the breed is doomed,i see sheep all over the country and i know that there is rubbish in all breeds,but i would'nt dismiss any of them if they suited my system

 

[neilo]

I know a guy who changed from farming conventional commercial owes to Easycares some years ago due to ill health reasons. ( He was looking for lower labour sheep for management ease.)

In conversation with him some time back, he noted that he was roughly £10-20 back per lamb since switching to the Easycare lambs ,compared to his previous Texels out of conventional ewes. However, he didn't put that down to any of the reasons offered up on this forum. He put it down to the fact that the conformation of his lambs had fallen off a cliff since moving to the Easycare, and therefore their saleability.

Out of interest, was he running the Easycares all bred pure, or was he crossing them with a ‘normal’ terminal sire? If going from a conventional system of selling terminal sire crosses, to one where you are selling 100% maternal lines, you would expect grades to fall off a cliff wouldn’t you?
That would be like going from Charollais/Texel cross mule lambs, to selling mule whethers. You’d expect to take a hit on sale prices.

I was having this discussion with someone yesterday, who was determined to try some shedders after he’d had this year’s shearing bill & wool cheque. There’s no reason why shedding genetics couldn’t be bred up for better confirmation if the will was there, but with the obvious trade off with lambing ease. So far, it seems most breeders of shedding sheep seem to think that getting live lambs out with little bother is the main priority.

 

[neilo]

You speak of pampered poodle type mules who's mothers never spend time on heather.
If you go to proper hill units where stock die if they aren't fit for the environment you won't find as many people worrying about markings.
A fair few Scotch mule wether lambs make U's, but I don't recall this thread being about mules.

If you want to bring other breeds in as a comparison then fine. At the market where I saw the shedding lambs being given away, there were Zwartbles lambs being sold, late March born, most were triplets and they were 8kgs heavier and made £18 more that the shedders.
Off similar units and around the same age, Zwartbles may have been a bit younger if anything.

Hardly a fair comparison. The Zwartble is a large, milky breed (a sheep Holstein), so you would expect a heavier/faster growing lamb than you would get from a 60kg ewe, that can be kept half as thick again.

 

[M-J-G]

Hardly a fair comparison. The Zwartble is a large, milky breed (a sheep Holstein), so you would expect a heavier/faster growing lamb than you would get from a 60kg ewe, that can be kept half as thick again.

My comparison was not so much on performance, more on the fact that a "Holstein" sheep was so much more in demand with the buyers.

 

[neilo]

My comparison was not so much on performance, more on the fact that a "Holstein" sheep was so much more in demand with the buyers.

No, they made more as 42kg lambs are in spec for weight, whereas the shedding lambs at 35kg were obviously not. They’d likely have been 15-16kg dw, so would take a hit for being sold at those weights, as would woolly/normal sheep. 35kg lambs of most breeds take a hit, quite rightly if the required spec is well above that, so anyone selling fat at those weights is going to get bent over.

They were sold badly because they were sold below weight. Of course the type of lamb and finish is unknown to us, but may have affected the price too of course. I suspect they likely wouldn’t have made any less than those Zwartble crosses if they had been sold when up to required market weights. Neither are likely to attract a premium for confirmation, just R3L /3H ‘bog standard’ lambs for the home/supermarket trade.

 

[pgk]

So many breeds for so many situations. I shall stick with my shedders which grade almost exclusively o3l and r3l off forage no added feed. Gave that up a couple of years ago and spent money on reseed and turnips. Not naive enough to think live buyers will pay even average price for pure shedders but dwt we make grade same as woollies and get paid accordingly. Bought in pure shedder stores last year which finished like ours off forage, doing same this year. Note that we rarely go past 3l whilst plenty of woollies go 3h or worse at drop of a hat. Texel crosses good for lwt as buyers look at texel head and little else.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Out of interest, was he running the Easycares all bred pure, or was he crossing them with a ‘normal’ terminal sire? If going from a conventional system of selling terminal sire crosses, to one where you are selling 100% maternal lines, you would expect grades to fall off a cliff wouldn’t you?

He does both. The main part of the flock get crossed with terminal sires, (which is where he's getting Texel X lambs to put back in the flock, ) and the remainder provide his Easycare lambs.

This is apparently mirroring his old system with conventional breeds, so presumably his remarks on his lamb conformation go across the flock?

 

[Bury the Trash]

I know little about shredders, but there was a pen of 3/4 bred shedding lambs at the market the last day I was there, off a pretty good farm, March born, they were 35kg and made £53.

Clipping suddenly seemed cheap.

They obviously werent fit to kill.

 

[M-J-G]

No, they made more as 42kg lambs are in spec for weight, whereas the shedding lambs at 35kg were obviously not. They’d likely have been 15-16kg dw, so would take a hit for being sold at those weights, as would woolly/normal sheep. 35kg lambs of most breeds take a hit, quite rightly if the required spec is well above that, so anyone selling fat at those weights is going to get bent over.

They were sold badly because they were sold below weight. Of course the type of lamb and finish is unknown to us, but may have affected the price too of course. I suspect they likely wouldn’t have made any less than those Zwartble crosses if they had been sold when up to required market weights. Neither are likely to attract a premium for confirmation, just R3L /3H ‘bog standard’ lambs for the home/supermarket trade.

I get where you're coming from, but they weren't the only light lambs there on the day.
35kg Cheviots made £60
36kg mules made £63

I haven't any experience of shedders apart from looking on at what a few locals are doing, but they aren't popular with buyers in the ring when compared to most other breeds.

 

[neilo]

I get where you're coming from, but they weren't the only light lambs there on the day.
35kg Cheviots made £60
36kg mules made £63

I haven't any experience of shedders apart from looking on at what a few locals are doing, but they aren't popular with buyers in the ring when compared to most other breeds.

Those lambs were clearly out of spec on weight, quite apart from anything else, so they were never going to be sold well.

However, when we hear of shedding supporters telling us that they average an R grade lamb (so as many O’s as U’s presumably), that concerns me greatly. To me, an R grade in spec lamb is the minimum to aim for, not an average.

 

[Green farmer]

All depends where your located and what the local market is like. In the mart I’d go to the 30kg store will make more per kg then fully finished lambs.

 

[Tim W]

Those lambs were clearly out of spec on weight, quite apart from anything else, so they were never going to be sold well.

However, when we hear of shedding supporters telling us that they average an R grade lamb (so as many O’s as U’s presumably), that concerns me greatly. To me, an R grade in spec lamb is the minimum to aim for, not an average.

1) R grade spec quoted is for a maternal type lamb ---crossed with a terminal obviously improves that (we hope)
2) ''Shedding sheep '' is as wide a definition as ''woolly sheep'' ----plenty of variation within both camps

People breed maternal sheep pure and put up with a poorer grade carcass because they make up the (slightly ) reduced fat lamb price with the ability to breed their own replacements and the reduced input costs
Not for everyone but it works well for many and i would hazard a guess that if we see a drop in lamb value after October that the margin for lower input systems will be better than for higher input systems (of course if both systems have a negative margin then it wont matter anyway!)