How long before biggest dealers pack up

[Cowabunga]

I have next to no kit , however it highlights the disconnect between returns and costs of machinery and who is actually benefiting from farmers efforts. I recall a fw interview where a contractor said he used to change his kit through his cash flow, now he couldn't afford the finance for the kit . Kinda sums up many .

Yes, the cost of prime movers is now unaffordable, even for contractors to pass the cost on in very many cases. This is a consequence of very low farm incomes. Possibly unsustainably low incomes. However the trend and the political imperative is to squeeze those farm incomes even further and cull a whole lot of farmers while paying lip service by paying a pittance for much land to be laid to waste or trees planted on it. There is currently absolutely no political leadership to secure domestic food production , not only in the UK but over many European countries as well.

 

[glasshouse]

Could be, otherwise what the heck is the point of it? To accumulate ever more debt? There is absolutely no point in a business that doesn’t leave you with as much as a pot to pee in at the end of the day. Having lots and lots of expensive equipment with interest to pay off is not my idea of efficiency unless that equipment is kept working productively for profitable work. Plenty of farmers do still only take finance when it is subsidised and better not to use one’s own savings, leaving it in other investments, pensions, a house or whatever.

Buying good used kit on hp can work very well. The secret of machinery finance is make sure its earning more than it costs and is paid off at the same speed or faster than it is wearing out.

 

[glasshouse]

I have next to no kit , however it highlights the disconnect between returns and costs of machinery and who is actually benefiting from farmers efforts. I recall a fw interview where a contractor said he used to change his kit through his cash flow, now he couldn't afford the finance for the kit . Kinda sums up many .

Kit has gone stupid
It will have to fall.
I just buy old stuff

 

[Farma Parma]

Building sites seem to love just one week self drive hire, don't know how that would work in agriculture

Big diff there is the return on that hire could be all fully paid the few weeks after
Its a year to often 2 or even 3 in this farming game.
Farming is very unique in this respect & cant just add on the extra uplift in any costs neither
But we all knew that from the start & still Farm away

 

[glasshouse]

Big diff there is the return on that hire could be all fully paid the few weeks after
Its a year to often 2 or even 3 in this farming game.
Farming is very unique in this respect & cant just add on the extra uplift in any costs neither
But we all knew that from the start & still Farm away

We dont know that at the start.
The enthusiasm of youth gets you going.
Things like the mad cow disease debacle we didnt foresee
Nor did i foresee the mismanagement of the uk economy by gordon brown from 97 to 2010 which f**ked farming too as well and we are still paying for it. Now we are 3 trillion in debt

 

[Farma Parma]

We dont know that at the start.
The enthusiasm of youth gets you going.
Things like the mad cow disease debacle we didnt foresee
Nor did i foresee the mismanagement of the uk economy by gordon brown from 97 to 2010 which f**ked farming too as well and we are still paying for it. Now we are 3 trillion in debt

I can remember harvests working alongside dad & loving it all working for next too nowt but you were your own boss & driving tractors was just that
would i change a thing looking back, would i heck. Shame it wasnt all ours thats my only regret
cropping 500ac & finishing it all with a 15ft 8070 by last day of August it was easy when the climate played ball.
All sown up by mid Oct.
Ploughed the lot with 4fr & 110hp drilling with 3m combi 100hp then 120hp for a long time.
ive 200+ hp now & still run a 3m combi. Dont plough it all mind.
Diff times now neighbour combines it all with a 360hp 24ft beast.
The weather often beats us one was or the other but it still gets done.
Are we taking more steps backwards than forwards who knows.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Most dealers have new ones in stock now, 12 months ago their was a long wait!

12 months ago we'd been waiting 26 months for Blake's new Kenworth . Now the wait time is back to 4 months

 

[SilliamWhale]

No decent chap or chapess would come out for £50 to inspect someone else’s work. I know you said wear points but I bet you would want him to sign to say wear points are good. The days of £50 jobs are gone. I charge £30 an hour to remove and sharpen a lawn mower blade . I should charge more but this is locals discount and out of hours (in my free time )

I was being flippant really. What I meant is changing the filters are easy but knowing what the worst wear points are

 

[Flyingscotsman]

The farmer will pay the full whack for it however it is financed or hired. Who else but the end user pays? Your dream of using tractors in a cheaper way is pie in the sky. The only way to do it cheaper is to increase productivity, buy used and keep for higher hours. As it always has been. If agricultural income falls below a level that is sustainable, given the cost of production of an average farm, then those farms will fail and food production will fall until price rises to a sustainable level. That’s how the capitalist system and the market works. There is absolutely nothing new under the sun.

I never said the dream was to use equipment in a cheaper way - this isn’t going to happen. As we all know,
not is getting cheaper as the shareholders continue to want more …
In an industry where price takers have little choice , options need to be considered on the best use of £££.
In terms of budgeting and business planning , having a fixed cost towards running of key equipment gives clarity and mitigates risk and sure , this comes at a cost.
Locking into a say 7 year contract hire insures against RPI on service and parts costs, interest on the capex is fixed so you know where you stand. Asset is also off the books and rentals attract tax relief.
it’s not for everybody but all options should be considered and it’s worth a look .
The number of hours/miles can also be selected to suit intensity of application so not just for high hour/mile users .

 

[2wheels]

I bought a Volvo instead!

volvo/ renault?

 

[Tony1989]

volvo/ renault?

Yes Renaults use Volvos powertrain

 

[Cowabunga]

Yes Renaults use Volvos powertrain

Really? In which models? Volvo have only made one range of engines for a decade now and in three and four cylinder, petrol and diesel form. 2.0 four and 1.5 three cylinder. Renault do use their own powertrains and both Renault engines and gearboxes are used also by Nissan and Mercedes.

 

[kiwi pom]

Really? In which models? Volvo have only made one range of engines for a decade now and in three and four cylinder, petrol and diesel form. 2.0 four and 1.5 three cylinder. Renault do use their own powertrains and both Renault engines and gearboxes are used also by Nissan and Mercedes.

He's talking about HGV's I think.
Volvo, Renault, Mack and until recently UD (now Isuzu I think)

 

[JP1]

Really? In which models? Volvo have only made one range of engines for a decade now and in three and four cylinder, petrol and diesel form. 2.0 four and 1.5 three cylinder. Renault do use their own powertrains and both Renault engines and gearboxes are used also by Nissan and Mercedes.

He's talking trucks H

 

[db9go]

I never said the dream was to use equipment in a cheaper way - this isn’t going to happen. As we all know,
not is getting cheaper as the shareholders continue to want more …
In an industry where price takers have little choice , options need to be considered on the best use of £££.
In terms of budgeting and business planning , having a fixed cost towards running of key equipment gives clarity and mitigates risk and sure , this comes at a cost.
Locking into a say 7 year contract hire insures against RPI on service and parts costs, interest on the capex is fixed so you know where you stand. Asset is also off the books and rentals attract tax relief.
it’s not for everybody but all options should be considered and it’s worth a look .
The number of hours/miles can also be selected to suit intensity of application so not just for high hour/mile users .

Why does every one think about TAX relief as there is one fundamental flaw in that is you have to make a profit first

even Gordon Brown did not make you pay tax on a lose.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Really? In which models? Volvo have only made one range of engines for a decade now and in three and four cylinder, petrol and diesel form. 2.0 four and 1.5 three cylinder. Renault do use their own powertrains and both Renault engines and gearboxes are used also by Nissan and Mercedes.

Lorries, my dear fellow

 

[Farmer Roy]

Is it far from that now?
Our JD we got before last harvest was like that. Said what specs we wanted on it, then it joined the manufacturing que.
JD link means they can do diagnostics remotely.

umm, I bought a brand new John Deere MaxEmerge planter ( double disc openers, vacuum precision seed boxes, 1 metre row spacing, for planting sorghum, cotton, sunflowers, maize etc ) in 1998. I specced it 9 months in advance, paid a deposit & it was built in the factory to my specs.
You couldn’t just walk into a dealership & buy one off the floor, 2 weeks before you wanted to use it.
Any new tractors I have bought in the past ( I’ve given up on that idea now, will only ever buy s/h now. My main farming tractor now, a 300hp Case 9260, had 17,000 hrs on it when I bought it last year ), I’ve had to pre order at least 6 months in advance

 

[40 series]

Mate had a 540 Volvo,best thing I’ve ever driven.

Volvo is good to go for a load in.
Scania is good to bring the load home

 

[kiwi pom]

Volvo is good to go for a load in.
Scania is good to bring the load home

Like Volvo engines and the Ishift, always found they had a lot of electrical gremlins though.
Had a Scania with 1.4 million hard K's on it, not a single rattle in the cab, engine untouched bar the turbo, just don't ask about the transmission.

 

[warksfarmer]

The contract hire model will need to come into play like it does in other industries and sectors…
Mind set change required in Agriculture to move away from owning high value and complex to repair equipment to a fixed cost of ownership rental model . No worries about residual values as the manufacturer will have factored these into the regular payments along with full maintenance package .

It wont it'll fail miserably. Average farm size is about 300ac generally mixed. They will need 2-3 tractors. Those tractor will have specific jobs such as one on a feeder, one on a scraper and then maybe another doing the arable bits for example. They might also have two telescopics or one telescopic and one of the tractors with a front end loader. These guys run older tractors and dont generally buy new, or if they do they buy knew once every 10 years. Their overall ownership costs will be low because each tractor will be doing probably 300 hours a year.

If they had to contract hire 3 tractors on 300 hours a year and then a telescopic as well or even possible two telescopics, they will be out of business within 12 months. They remain in business for two reasons. The first is they use older machinery and the second is they use family labour.

So if the machinery manufacturers think they can push all farmers into the hire model then they will be in for a very big surprise as all it will do is mean the used market will become tight so farmers will start importing their own used tractors from anywhere else apart from the UK.