How much nitrogen?

[neilo]

Yeah great, and then a third party has a record of the nutrient indices of your fields....

Get your own tests done and keep the records yourself. Do not allow third parties especially anyone connected to government agencies or similar to collect or retain that data. If someone asks for evidence of soil testing at a farm assurance inspection, etc you show them the print outs but do not allow them to collect or keep any of that information.

Have you got a shiny tin foil hat on?
Why do you consider it necessary to keep soil test results top secret?

I’m about to use Farming Connect’s 80% funding for soil testing for the third time. That’s about £4500 worth of testing & consultancy for which I will pay 20%.

Should I be worried that my independent agronomist will have access to that classified data too?

 

[TexelBen]

What? Why?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Have you got a shiny tin foil hat on?
Why do you consider it necessary to keep soil test results top secret?

I’m about to use Farming Connect’s 80% funding for soil testing for the third time. That’s about £4500 worth of testing & consultancy for which I will pay 20%.

Should I be worried that my independent agronomist will have access to that classified data too?

Because the government will soon be doing soil tests as part of NVQ so why give them a leg up, not that i have anything to hide .

 

[neilo]

Because the government will soon be doing soil tests as part of NVQ so why give them a leg up, not that i have anything to hide .

I assume you mean NVZ, and the government don’t soil test for that. Farmers will have to have a nutrient management plan though, which is what is 80% funded currently, and will require farmers to soil test.
It’s pretty sensible to do so anyway of course, so why not take advantage of the funding available to do so?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I assume you mean NVZ, and the government don’t soil test for that. Farmers will have to have a nutrient management plan though, which is what is 80% funded currently, and will require farmers to soil test.
It’s pretty sensible to do so anyway of course, so why not take advantage of the funding available to do so?

Ive been told they will be doing spot checks for nitrate , they will have to to police it

 

[neilo]

Ive been told they will be doing spot checks for nitrate , they will have to to police it

Me think the jungle drums are trying to spread panic.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Me think the jungle drums are trying to spread panic.

Dairy farmers are more than panicking. A lot are thinking of giving up , I can't blame them

 

[N.Yorks.]

Dairy farmers are more than panicking. A lot are thinking of giving up , I can't blame them

If they're in the right location: cut numbers, cut slurry volumes, cut time in the parlour, buy pasteuriser and bottling plant and get selling direct. Probably takes same amount of time up but pay is much better!!

I stress..... if in the right location!

 

[ollie989898]

Have you got a shiny tin foil hat on?
Why do you consider it necessary to keep soil test results top secret?

I’m about to use Farming Connect’s 80% funding for soil testing for the third time. That’s about £4500 worth of testing & consultancy for which I will pay 20%.

Should I be worried that my independent agronomist will have access to that classified data too?

Neil, what is the worst I'm going to do, if even I'm a distributor agronomist? Try to sell you something, for which you say: 'nah'.

Now, why do you suppose all these organisations are so keen to do all these soil tests?

Because it's a way for the ministry to build a picture of things like Phosphate levels in a region, and low and behold, one day they come along to various post codes and say: 'sorry guys, heres a blanket for phosphate loading limit on your holding, enjoy'.

 

[Sid]

Dairy farmers are more than panicking. A lot are thinking of giving up , I can't blame them

I do every morning when the alarm goes off

 

[N.Yorks.]

Neil, what is the worst I'm going to do, if even I'm a distributor agronomist? Try to sell you something, for which you say: 'nah'.

Now, why do you suppose all these organisations are so keen to do all these soil tests?

Because it's a way for the ministry to build a picture of things like Phosphate levels in a region, and low and behold, one day they come along to various post codes and say: 'sorry guys, heres a blanket for phosphate loading limit on your holding, enjoy'.

The EA already monitor water quality by sampling various streams and rivers and know if a catchment area is failing limits - they even give reasons places fail and all that feeds into strategy ie. chuck more money at wishy washy catchment officers (apologies if that offends!) and designate areas more likely to get funding for CS capital items to improve water quality. Soil analysis is not going to alter their approach.....

Biggest problems with soil samples is having results that are higher than they need to be, ie going and sampling too soon after slurry or muck and getting a high reading for P/K. Once you've got a piece of paper saying its P index 4 when it really is a high 2 your sort of fecked! Leave as long as possible to sample after muck fert etc......

 

[ollie989898]

The EA already monitor water quality by sampling various streams and rivers and know if a catchment area is failing limits - they even give reasons places fail and all that feeds into strategy ie. chuck more money at wishy washy catchment officers (apologies if that offends!) and designate areas more likely to get funding for CS capital items to improve water quality. Soil analysis is not going to alter their approach.....

Biggest problems with soil samples is having results that are higher than they need to be, ie going and sampling too soon after slurry or muck and getting a high reading for P/K. Once you've got a piece of paper saying its P index 4 when it really is a high 2 your sort of fecked! Leave as long as possible to sample after muck fert etc......

You and I both know that there are areas of land where the P and K indices are sky high yet people need to continue putting slurry on them to get rid of it. They can sample water but that still gives them no exactly clue what the levels in soil might be. Why give them the information? As I say, do the tests and keep the records but don't share it with quangos.

 

[ollie989898]

Me think the jungle drums are trying to spread panic.

You wouldn't be saying that if you had to spend 100K putting up a new slurry store because or some arbitrary rule change that affects you and not your neighbours mind.

 

[neilo]

Neil, what is the worst I'm going to do, if even I'm a distributor agronomist? Try to sell you something, for which you say: 'nah'.

Now, why do you suppose all these organisations are so keen to do all these soil tests?

Because it's a way for the ministry to build a picture of things like Phosphate levels in a region, and low and behold, one day they come along to various post codes and say: 'sorry guys, heres a blanket for phosphate loading limit on your holding, enjoy'.

That’s good then. They’ll not be imposing any limits when they see the levels from my soil tests.

 

[ollie989898]

That’s good then. They’ll not be imposing any limits when they see the levels from my soil tests.

But what if they slap the restrictions on your anyway because you are in the same catchment as 3 big dairy farms?

 

[neilo]

But what if they slap the restrictions on your anyway because you are in the same catchment as 3 big dairy farms?

Restrictions so that I can’t apply to excess? I think I’ll cope with that.

As with the NVZ restrictions on N inputs, it won’t limit most farmers’ applications, just create more paperwork and costs to increase storage if people have been skimping.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Restrictions so that I can’t apply to excess? I think I’ll cope with that.

As with the NVZ restrictions on N inputs, it won’t limit most farmers’ applications, just create more paperwork and costs to increase storage if people have been skimping.

With respect I don't think you have a clue . I have farmers in the office almost in tears with it

 

[N.Yorks.]

With respect I don't think you have a clue . I have farmers in the office almost in tears with it

Think it's mainly fearing the unknown....... Biggest hassle will be slurry storage capacity........ but there's stuff that can be done...... get clean rainwater diverted away from the pit/tower/lagoon is one simple first step. I'm not being simplistic as sometimes there are herds that have grown beyond their infrastructure I do realise.

The biggest thing here in England is the farming rules for water regs as they cover P and K use not just N.

 

[neilo]

With respect I don't think you have a clue . I have farmers in the office almost in tears with it

‘With respect’, I do know what’s entailed, having been in intensive dairying back home and in one of the original NVZ’s. I likely know an awful lot more about what’s involved than you might think you do.
I have rolled my eyes more than a few times having seen some of the antics going on up here, which were always going to lead to those restrictions being brought in. Unfortunately WAG has chosen to bring in an NVZ covering everyone, rather than cracking down on the t*ssers that have been flagrantly taking the pee.

 

[ollie989898]

Restrictions so that I can’t apply to excess? I think I’ll cope with that.

As with the NVZ restrictions on N inputs, it won’t limit most farmers’ applications, just create more paperwork and costs to increase storage if people have been skimping.

The problem is I have met farmers who are worried they will be forced to change how they operate, reduce cow numbers or involve significant expense.