How would you react?

[YorkshireAndrew]

Likewise, there is no excuse for making any form of derogatory comments about anyone or anything in years before social media, which was my point.

Everyone that has ever done so - is just as guilty as this individual here, but chose to ignore that they have done similar themselves and simply hide behind the fact this was done on a technology that was not available in their day!

I agree to an extent , however , putting material out there for all to see is completely different (but still not right) to some moaning old git in the pub tittle tattling to his mates about where he's been working .

 

[Forever Fendt]

Perhaps a simple test for these people who post remarks like this would be say it to the persons face first and see how it goes then think about posting it when you have had their reaction

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

Pretty simple really. The young bloke needs an official warning. (Regardless of whether anyone thinks he's right or not.) If you don't nip his actions in the bud now you are sending the wrong message to him that it is alright to crack em when things don't go his way... You've done work their before. Any issues in the past or was this, this blokes first time there? Let him no that in the future if he has an issue with a client he is to contact you and you alone (or else). As for the client let him cool his heels, apologize for the young blokes actions, bill him accordingly (extra for blockages, and itemize it on bill) and think twice about going their in the future. Also , from now on inform ALL customers that you will be charging double the hourly rate for clearing blockages etc. Let your staff know that they are to report blockages to you as they will be paid extra for their time (this way they won't be so shitty with fixing it as they are earning more and so are you, and the farmer might take some action of his own to prevent it happening in the future.)

 

[Ukjay]

I agree to an extent , however , putting material out there for all to see is completely different (but still not right) to some moaning old git in the pub tittle tattling to his mates about where he's been working .

Please lets not forget that the Old Tittle Tattling is exactly the same thing - as people used to sit around slagging others off, or the boss off when on their breaks in years gone by.
We are simply fixating on the new technology of today - which is comparable with the actions of the workers in bygone years imho.

We cannot have our cake and eat it unfortunately - we need to embrace the new technology and educate on the use of it.

 

[Grassman]

Interesting, wonder who all the visitors are and if regular visitors why they don't sign up.

That said, how many of the 25,000 are regular posters? A lot of the names that keep popping up are familiar, can't be that big a number that post fairly regularly, say 10+ posts a week..........and yes, I know some are good for at least that number a day.

Sure I read on here its something like 2% make 90% of posts and 90% of readers never post. @Sleepy

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Sure I read on here its something like 2% make 90% of posts and 90% of readers never post. @Sleepy

As none members?

 

[Grassman]

As none members?

It may of been in general terms for any typical forum rather than this one in particular.

 

[Breakthru]

Please lets not forget that the Old Tittle Tattling is exactly the same thing - as people used to sit around slagging others off, or the boss off when on their breaks in years gone by.
We are simply fixating on the new technology of today - which is comparable with the actions of the workers in bygone years imho.

We cannot have our cake and eat it unfortunately - we need to embrace the new technology and educate on the use of it.

Previously these type of comments were repeated generally on a non-attributable basis and certainly not liable to court action.
We now live in a litigous society where you will get your ass sued for the slightest thing by a member of the maskless bandit society.
Putting things in print is very foolhardy and todays' generation are too thick to realise this.
Tell the guy involved to print a grovelling apology, embarrassing to him, and then take him to make same apology in person. Also explain to customer that the angst was caused by repeated blockages and wading about elbow deep in crap does tend to make one a bit short in the grain.
Final warning that any repeat will mean that money lost will result in a deduction from wages and he can go to court to get it back from you.
Point out the upfront cost of litigation.
Being hurt or threatened with hurt in the pocket concentrates the mind.

 

[Ukjay]

As stated earlier - without the full facts, you cannot simply issue a final warning. You must have full disclosure of the facts to be able to issue an outcome.
Doing otherwise will potentially land you in serious trouble with the courts if the employee knows his rights and seeks legal representation.

And yes I agree today's younger generation do appear to have different barriers to what I have for example.

 

[Breakthru]

What you are trying to do is put the frighteners on him so there is no repeat.
I think new contracts of employment need to be drawn up with relation to phones and their apps so that everyone is clear about what is acceptable.
The kids need to be better educated at school that what they post has serious ramifications, sometimes well in to the future. Especially re job applications.

 

[Ukjay]

The kids need to be better educated at school that what they post has serious ramifications, sometimes well in to the future. Especially re job applications.

100% agree. I make my child fully aware that the internet is no hiding place for silly comments etc about anything.
You post on the open - your open to comebacks which may lead to not getting that top job.

Unfortunately, our school system is not what it once was, leaving massive holes in what the younger generation know, possibly because the teachers themselves do not fully understand these things.

 

[Breakthru]

100% agree. I make my child fully aware that the internet is no hiding place for silly comments etc about anything.
You post on the open - your open to comebacks which may lead to not getting that top job.

Unfortunately, our school system is not what it once was, leaving massive holes in what the younger generation know, possibly because the teachers themselves do not fully understand these things.

Unfortunately not part of the curriculum. Heard of a teacher who told the class in the strictest confidence she was having an affair with another teacher.
Ten minutes later she informed the class that her secret revelation had just resulted in a reply from Australia. Interesting way to make her point and certainly made the kids sit up and listen.

 

[Old McDonald]

There are several references to the emloyee being a young person. Hpw young? It seems he was working without the supervision of the OP so he has to be considered old enough to do such unsupervised work by the OP.

I personally know we would for the most part have all done similar using the tech of our time, but for some strange reason - we somehow become saints in later years and make claim that we never did anything that brought our actions into question!

You do not know. I would take the opposite view and say most of us would not.

I was 16 years old when I became subject to similar rules and regulations, including Parliamentary Acts, to Princess Pooper (and, PP, I like your remark about not being at work, ie you are not stealing someone else's time, therefore money). Any breach of confidentiality would have resulted in dismissal. I knew someone who discussed a work matter with a person she should not have done and named someone. Instant dismissal. I admit this was in 1990/91 so a while ago.

 

[awkward]

Haven't read all but it's understood that u never comment on what happens in another man's yard . That young lad needs to wise up and respect the privacy of the places he works at

 

[Ukjay]

There are several references to the emloyee being a young person. Hpw young? It seems he was working without the supervision of the OP so he has to be considered old enough to do such unsupervised work by the OP.



You do not know. I would take the opposite view and say most of us would not.

I was 16 years old when I became subject to similar rules and regulations, including Parliamentary Acts, to Princess Pooper (and, PP, I like your remark about not being at work, ie you are not stealing someone else's time, therefore money). Any breach of confidentiality would have resulted in dismissal. I knew someone who discussed a work matter with a person she should not have done and named someone. Instant dismissal. I admit this was in 1990/91 so a while ago.

Like a lot of comments made on open forums - none of us know for fact what has or has not transpired!

Your last reference would have been covered by a contractual obligation, or by direct instructions given stating the confidentiality clause no doubt, otherwise it would not hold up I fear, as in this case, the young person could make it very clear they were not aware of the restrictions imposed upon them due to lack of contractually written obligation or formal directives given by the employer (and I am assuming this not to be in a contract or had any documentation in regards to training), and stated the post was confidential and intended for the audience in the list circulated to as they all do it to each other.

I thereby state again - we cannot be judge, jury and executioner without knowing the facts in this particular case. If you do not believe me - try it out on someone who knows their legal rights and see what happens and where it ends up.
Additionally - if the individual is of an ethnic minority background or has any recognised disability (something else none of you appear to be concerned with before giving judgement of outcomes), your also going to be in a whole different level of trouble if said employee (or their family) starts using the discrimination card, but that is another story.

You see the law has changed considerably, whereby the onus is more on the employer than the employee to ensure adequate training and documentation is maintained. Yes phones are a real pita these days and is a bone of contention that I too have - but we use contractual and formal documentation to ensure all employees know the requirements and sign to say so.
Without these documents you are at the mercy of finding a court that slants towards the company in absence of any formal documentation, as common sense is not an admissible form of defence for companies unfortunately, as we could / should have prevented it in the eyes of the law.

 

[Neuson510k]

Just a quick update,
Decided to give the lad a written warning which he signed and write a letter of apology of which I will hand deliver ( I'm not putting him in a situation where his personal safety may be at risk)

Changing the staff rules to no social media uploading at customers premises or comments. I have no problem with it at my premises.

Also changed my safe systems of work to include any customers activities that affect employee personal health and safety must be reported immediately. ( When on other premises you abide by their rules but occurred to me most of these premises have no h and s policy, risk assesments or safe systems of work in place)

I am fully aware that the farmer may or may not have seen this post but it usually the truth that is the hardest truth to face.
Is it really helping the industry long term not getting some premises to change their ways? This place would be a public relations nightmare.

 

[Red Fred]

Whether we did similar things 30 years ago doesn't seem to me to be relevent (and I did and said things as a cocky college leaver that I shouldn't have, we weren't angels) The point is, it was wrong then and it is wrong now and hopefully everyone grows out of it as they become more secure in themselves and thoughtful of others.
I remember dad making a silly comment about a well respected local farmer 50 years ago which was intended to be humourous, but was reported back and led to them not speaking to each other for their remaining 20 odd years. Dad shouldn't have said it, but it wasn't ill intentioned.
Another point is that no-one wants outsiders taking pictures of anything in their private yards.
I learnt this a year or so ago when I noticed a teenage girl and her dad taking snaps of the ponies having walked down our drive to the paddock, so I thought it best to just say hello and leave them to it as I was busy working on the baler. Next day, an RSPCA lady turns up saying she had an anonymous report that we had a lame pony. She only stayed a minute when she saw the healthy ponies and tidy stable, etc, but it really wound me up that they thought it OK to trespass and make a spurious complaint without bothering to say anything to me, and the dad didn't have the balls to come and ask permission.
Another neighbour took pictures of his very expensive new off road bike parked in his garage, put them on facebook for all to see, then wondered why it vanished within a week. It turned out the local delinquent was keeping an eye on peoples' FB pages to see what was worth nicking.

 

[Ukjay]

Whether we did similar things 30 years ago doesn't seem to me to be relevent (and I did and said things as a cocky college leaver that I shouldn't have, we weren't angels) The point is, it was wrong then and it is wrong now and hopefully everyone grows out of it as they become more secure in themselves and thoughtful of others.
I remember dad making a silly comment about a well respected local farmer 50 years ago which was intended to be humourous, but was reported back and led to them not speaking to each other for their remaining 20 odd years. Dad shouldn't have said it, but it wasn't ill intentioned.
Another point is that no-one wants outsiders taking pictures of anything in their private yards.
I learnt this a year or so ago when I noticed a teenage girl and her dad taking snaps of the ponies having walked down our drive to the paddock, so I thought it best to just say hello and leave them to it as I was busy working on the baler. Next day, an RSPCA lady turns up saying she had an anonymous report that we had a lame pony. She only stayed a minute when she saw the healthy ponies and tidy stable, etc, but it really wound me up that they thought it OK to trespass and make a spurious complaint without bothering to say anything to me, and the dad didn't have the balls to come and ask permission.
Another neighbour took pictures of his very expensive new off road bike parked in his garage, put them on facebook for all to see, then wondered why it vanished within a week. It turned out the local delinquent was keeping an eye on peoples' FB pages to see what was worth nicking.

No one is disputing the wrong doing here (especially me if you care to read the post about what I would do) - my concerns were more on the sack him immediately without knowing the facts route.
A lot of people are quick to jump down the throat of a young lad, and they (as you have said you have done), have more than likely done stupid things themselves, but chose to ignore or turn a blind eye over it.

As to relevance of things gone before - it is fully relevant, because unbeknownst to you - you may have been given leniency by an elder in your younger days, and helped to overcome things without your knowledge. Not all adults are complete tools, whereby they do see good in youngsters!
I know I have had support in my life, whereby I try to pay down that support through my decisions made today, and more importantly in the choices I will continue to make in the future.

 

[Cowabunga]

I agree to an extent , however , putting material out there for all to see is completely different (but still not right) to some moaning old git in the pub tittle tattling to his mates about where he's been working .

Yes, its more like putting a notice in a newspaper. Very like that.

 

[7610 super q]

I think the gist of the last eleventy billion pages is don't f**k about taking pictures of other peoples farms.