If you tell lies you'll get caught out eventually

[matthew]

Funnily enough this was always the reason to take those fees. So what have we paid for?

In the case of the Limousin debacle, not a lot it seems.
I hope the back dated DNA screens on the AA sires has proved useful. It needed to happen, IMO.

 

[GenuineRisk]

Certainly feel great sympathy for these folk...

Announcement from Gunnerfleet Limousins

“We thought this day would or should of never come. This is probably one of the oldest , most established limousin herds in the county. We started over 35 years ago ! My Father founded the herd , and with his consent we have agreed to sell the herd.

As we feel so let down by the BLCS over the handling of the Jaegerbomb saga. They are a charity that is supposed to look after its members ( innocent members) There has been no compassion showed or an arm around the shoulder support at all. For some of the committee members to be lying , at this late stage is disrespectful and discurtious.

We are an honest, quiet family that want to breed quality pedigree limousin cattle. And all we are doing is entering into a potential legal litigation saga. Which isn't us but we have no option to pursue the perpetrators of this incident. All we are looking for is the honest truth.

After months of gathering evidence internally and externally. With private detectives over these last few months. We are now ready to take things to the next level if we have to. This has all been mental torture over the past 18 months. And has almost sent Ian over the edge!
We thank all our friends in the limousin breed, fellow breeders ,friends and family for their valued support.

Gunnerfleet herd is probably one of the leading herds in the county. Never missing one bull sale at Carlisle. And over the past 4- 5 years we have always averaged between £8,500 - £10,500 . With teams of bulls. All the cows in the herd always breed top quality progeny. We are a small herd, but extremely selective.
And we hope all future buyers have the same success we had before purchasing Jaegerbomb.

This is truly a sad, sad day and we will find it extremely difficult to let go of the herd.
But let's not forget that the limousin breed is the best beef breed in the world and always will be. And the breed will get through this dark time. As quality always pays. We are proud to have been part of the limousin breed.

Our dispersal sale is on Sat 16th May 2020 at Borderway mart, Carlisle.”

 

[Ysgythan]

I’ve a feeling there’s sh!t heading towards fans in a few breeds...

 

[neilo]

I’ve a feeling there’s sh!t heading towards fans in a few breeds...

Indeed. I’ve been told of several legal cases involving rams recently, in several different breeds. Obviously smaller sums generally involved than the subject of this thread, but it’s a worrying direction to be heading as an industry imo.

 

[glow worm]

I’ve a feeling there’s sh!t heading towards fans in a few breeds...

I hear lots of stories of pedigree HF herds calving down many dams in the same pen / field, collecting up the resulting heifer calves with considerable guesswork sometimes as to which calf belonged to which dam and registering the perceived results with the relevant pedigree society. As someone who has worked hard with our pedigree herd, DNA testing any calves where the dam's identity is not 100% certain, I have never understood why all calves wishing to be registered as pedigree are not DNA tested at birth, hopefully just to cover any unintentional mistake, as anyone doing it deliberately, shouldnt be allowed to be pedigree anyway.

 

[juke]

Are any breeds apart from charolais compulsory DNA testing heifers as they come into the herd ?

 

[Hesstondriver]

Are any breeds apart from charolais compulsory DNA testing heifers as they come into the herd ?

Yes Simmentals are just implemented this. I think it should go further and all breeding females should be done

 

[Johngee]

Are any breeds apart from charolais compulsory DNA testing heifers as they come into the herd ?

And Lims have started doing this now.

 

[Cowgirl]

But why are they doing it? It doesn't take 50K SNPs to identify a calf's parents. It doesn't prove that the calf is a pedigree anything. Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted...

 

[Gulli]

Are any breeds apart from charolais compulsory DNA testing heifers as they come into the herd ?

Hereford society bringing it in in July.

@Cowgirl should have started it a long time ago, but thats not a reason to not start now. Should allow them to have DNA records for the majority of the breeding females in the country quite quickly.
Still waiting on a reply from them about what happens if a breeder is found to be regularly changing parentage...

 

[neilo]

Still waiting on a reply from them about what happens if a breeder is found to be regularly changing parentage...

I suspect that would depend on who the breeder was...….

 

[An ancient git]

It's a tragedy that 'occasional' folk are less than honest . Had two heifers calve one night , one red Angus calf , one black ... By morning they'd happily swapped . That genuine scenario can't be overcome , if in a calving yard and could have been a genuine error ...... Bizarre thing was , when milkers dispersed , I kept one heifer and she cheerfully took her 'own' calf back and reared the two ! But real dishonesty is disgraceful and driven by a desire for £££s . These folk are not true 'pedigree' breeders in any way , shape or form ....... I feel great sympathy for Gunnerfleet in getting tangled up in a scenario that was not of their own making ......

 

[An ancient git]

It's a tragedy that 'occasional' folk are less than honest . Had two heifers calve one night , one red Angus calf , one black ... By morning they'd happily swapped . That genuine scenario can't be overcome , if in a calving yard and could have been a genuine error ...... Bizarre thing was , when milkers dispersed , I kept one heifer and she cheerfully took her 'own' calf back and reared the two ! But real dishonesty is disgraceful and driven by a desire for £££s . These folk are not true 'pedigree' breeders in any way , shape or form ....... I feel great sympathy for Gunnerfleet in getting tangled up in a scenario that was not of their own making ......

 

[choochter]

Are any breeds apart from charolais compulsory DNA testing heifers as they come into the herd ?

Yes Simmentals are just implemented this. I think it should go further and all breeding females should be done

So is this done via a hair sample? Who takes the hair sample?

 

[juke]

So is this done via a hair sample? Who takes the hair sample?

The farmer takes the sample

 

[choochter]

The farmer takes the sample

Ah.

 

[Yale]

We normally register around 20 limousin heifer calves from our commercial pedigree herd every year.

The decision has been taken to cease registering females.

The society will be losing £5-600 from us this year.

Sad but we’re not faffing with hair samples etc.,there’s enough work with everything else and it will be a cost saving.

 

[matthew]

So is this done via a hair sample? Who takes the hair sample?

AA society use a DNA eartag. A tissue sample is taken as the eartag is inserted, and sent to the society. So each
eartag has an integral sample. Like a tissue test for BVD. The vial is labelled with a bar code and the tag number.

 

[Bill the Bass]

We normally register around 20 limousin heifer calves from our commercial pedigree herd every year.

The decision has been taken to cease registering females.

The society will be losing £5-600 from us this year.

Sad but we’re not faffing with hair samples etc.,there’s enough work with everything else and it will be a cost saving.

We aren’t registering any bull calves any more, that will be thick end of £1200 from us, we plan to still register females albeit more selectively.

I think there will be a lot in the same boat - makes you wonder where the job will be for pedigree beef, let’s face it, it’s difficult to see who will want the bulls in five years time the way the suckler job is.

 

[yellowbelly]

AA society use a DNA eartag. A tissue sample is taken as the eartag is inserted, and sent to the society. So each
eartag has an integral sample. Like a tissue test for BVD. The vial is labelled with a bar code and the tag number.

Surely the only way to go.

Anybody devious enough to falsify breeding returns is likely to be liable to snip a bit of hair off a different animal too.

Just sayin'