Immigration - Denmark has got it right.

[Danllan]

 

[Ashtree]

Here’s the thing. Denmark is managing immigration as it sees fit, and within domestic and international law norms. Furthermore, it’s doing so in a politically and societally mature way, without fracture or implosion in either politics or society. On top of all of that, no hissy fit, no blaming EU, no leaving the EU. Just a normal, mature democratic process, taking its course and dealing with the issues of the day, of which immigration just happens to be one.

Now, compare that to the UK! To a bungling, broken, fractured establishment and political system.

In hindsight, it might have been a better idea, to have a rational national debate on politics and governance, with a view to structural reforms, to make the system fit for purpose.

But, sadly the implosion continues unabated, and appears in fact to be gaining momentum.

 

[Danllan]

Here’s the thing. Denmark is managing immigration as it sees fit, and within domestic and international law norms. Furthermore, it’s doing so in a politically and societally mature way, without fracture or implosion in either politics or society. On top of all of that, no hissy fit, no blaming EU, no leaving the EU. Just a normal, mature democratic process, taking its course and dealing with the issues of the day, of which immigration just happens to be one.

Now, compare that to the UK! To a bungling, broken, fractured establishment and political system.

In hindsight, it might have been a better idea, to have a rational national debate on politics and governance, with a view to structural reforms, to make the system fit for purpose.

But, sadly the implosion continues unabated, and appears in fact to be gaining momentum.

Yeah... isn't the UK awful, blah blah blah, same old, same old...

Now, imagine a country that so mismanages immigration that there is violence and rioting on its capital's streets because of it and where its own people have been utterly ignored and, when the complain about it, are labeled as extremists. Oops, sorry, my bad... you don't have to imagine a country like that - you live in it.

Back in the real world, I was waiting for you to come out with such drivel; take a squint at your past posts where I and others have proposed what Denmark does and you denounced it, why is OK now for Denmark but wasn't for here?

 

[Ashtree]

And of course, so long as the “subjects” have no ”real” say, and are happy with the status quo, then I’m really happy for them in turn.
FPP, election system designed and occasionally manipulated, to keep functional power or parliamentary influence well out of reach of the “subjects”!
Unelected feudal remnant head of state AND church if you don’t mind!
PM changing once a quarter.
Riven, infighting, backbiting cabinet(s) and government parliamentary party.
Lord unelectd Frosty the Nobody, urging the governing party from the sidelines to ditch the PM.
Chaotic third world border qeues year on year.
No checks on incoming goods at border control.
Immigration pandemonium, year after year, with utterly no sign of a consensus or solution.
Covid inquiry, now pouring shame and opprobrium on the one aspect of national governance, which the Brexiteers heretofore claimed was the best in the world.
Out manouvered and outwitted by both Japan and Australia at trade deals.
ECJ still governing aspects of law.
NI no longer properly in the Union (lucky for them).

Yeah, I’d say, time to look in the mirror and have a long hard conversation with the reflection.
Don’t you think…??

 

[Danllan]

And of course, so long as the “subjects” have no ”real” say, and are happy with the status quo, then I’m really happy for them in turn.
FPP, election system designed and occasionally manipulated, to keep functional power or parliamentary influence well out of reach of the “subjects”!
Unelected feudal remnant head of state AND church if you don’t mind!
PM changing once a quarter.
Riven, infighting, backbiting cabinet(s) and government parliamentary party.
Lord unelectd Frosty the Nobody, urging the governing party from the sidelines to ditch the PM.
Chaotic third world border qeues year on year.
No checks on incoming goods at border control.
Immigration pandemonium, year after year, with utterly no sign of a consensus or solution.
Covid inquiry, now pouring shame and opprobrium on the one aspect of national governance, which the Brexiteers heretofore claimed was the best in the world.
Out manouvered and outwitted by both Japan and Australia at trade deals.
ECJ still governing aspects of law.
NI no longer properly in the Union (lucky for them).

Yeah, I’d say, time to look in the mirror and have a long hard conversation with the reflection.
Don’t you think…??

Still churning it out; what about telling us what we can learn from the ROI and its immigration success story?

 

[Muck Spreader]

Very intriguing; I'm not sure how simple it would be to apply similar ideas to bigger nations with lengthy histories of colonisation, like the UK or France. Still, there are a lot of ideas they are testing that any government trying to address this issue should find interesting.

 

[Ashtree]

Still churning it out; what about telling us what we can learn from the ROI and its immigration success story?

Nothing from that.
A lot from a PR election system, and a functioning citizens advisory council body.
Perhaps the nearest equivalent political chaos and malfunction we have had, to your current situation, was around issues of catholic dogma, influencing government policy to a very high degree. A classic example being the near riotous behaviour within and outside the Dail, over more than a decade regarding divorce.
Finally, politics matured, the system of debating contentious issues calmed down, citizens advisory committees were formed, leading to today’s citizens council.
The political and societal dominance of Fianna Fáil and the Catholic Church, has been firmly replaced. We have seen more than two decades now of coalition governments, as quite frankly the people refuse to give a blank cheque to any one party.
I believe that on available evidence ROI politics has matured and evolved into a functioning if imperfect, representative governing system.
It looks to me, based on the available evidence, that UK has gone from a functional / imperfect if not truly representative system, to something looking like a pub brawl, spilling out onto the street, after a Wimbledon v Millwall footie match, back in the day, when footballers names could be pronounced.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Very intriguing; I'm not sure how simple it would be to apply similar ideas to bigger nations with lengthy histories of colonisation, like the UK or France. Still, there are a lot of ideas they are testing that any government trying to address this issue should find interesting.

The Danes have quite the history of overseas endeavours themselves, most of which ended up being sold to the British Empire in the 1800's.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

But i thought Nige said we had to leave the EU to control immigration?

 

[Danllan]

But i thought Nige said we had to leave the EU to control immigration?

But I thought the French said they would stop the boats...

 

[Oldmacdonald]

But I thought the French said they would stop the boats...

Fine case of whataboutery.

 

[Danllan]

Fine case of whataboutery.

Which is a short way for to admit that you have nothing with which to contradict what I wrote.

As for what Farage said about immigration; yes, the only way to reduce immigration from the EU was to leave the EU, since membership is entirely incompatible with any restriction on the free movement of people between member states.

 

[SteveHants]

Did the Danes give a quarter of a billion quid to Rwanda yet?

 

[Raider112]

Nothing from that.
A lot from a PR election system, and a functioning citizens advisory council body.
Perhaps the nearest equivalent political chaos and malfunction we have had, to your current situation, was around issues of catholic dogma, influencing government policy to a very high degree. A classic example being the near riotous behaviour within and outside the Dail, over more than a decade regarding divorce.
Finally, politics matured, the system of debating contentious issues calmed down, citizens advisory committees were formed, leading to today’s citizens council.
The political and societal dominance of Fianna Fáil and the Catholic Church, has been firmly replaced. We have seen more than two decades now of coalition governments, as quite frankly the people refuse to give a blank cheque to any one party.
I believe that on available evidence ROI politics has matured and evolved into a functioning if imperfect, representative governing system.
It looks to me, based on the available evidence, that UK has gone from a functional / imperfect if not truly representative system, to something looking like a pub brawl, spilling out onto the street, after a Wimbledon v Millwall footie match, back in the day, when footballers names could be pronounced.

Impressive rant but what has all that got to do with Denmark's immigration policy?

 

[kiwi pom]

Kicking out illegals, preventing more illegals from entering (how do you stop them) having a zero-refugee policy and deporting foreigners who break the law is a good starting point but the majority of those entering the UK from abroad are doing it legally. You could stop issuing visa's but who's going to do all the rubbish jobs?

In the video they talked about diluting the foreign population in certain areas by buying up and demolishing housing projects, but they never mentioned where the immigrants ended up. I see that being a problem in NIMBY Britain. They're in one area because no one wants them in their area.

Denmark is at least trying things though, which is something.
I still think detention camps in the North of Scotland for illegals, and those from abroad caught breaking the law is a good idea.
Nice business even
So where shall we build them?

 

[flinty123]

Just like UK, the Danish politician's will concentrate on immigration, to win a few votes. The usual suspects such as Danllan and Co will get worked up.

The real issue is, the party which Danllan and Co vote for, are allowing millions to settle here legally through the front door.

I suspect Denmark will be no different, the politician's and media moguls will have come to an agreement to do a little immigration bashing, whilst letting in millions through the front door.

Amazing how easily some are fooled.

 

[robs1]

Just like UK, the Danish politician's will concentrate on immigration, to win a few votes. The usual suspects such as Danllan and Co will get worked up.

The real issue is, the party which Danllan and Co vote for, are allowing millions to settle here legally through the front door.

I suspect Denmark will be no different, the politician's and media moguls will have come to an agreement to do a little immigration bashing, whilst letting in millions through the front door.

Amazing how easily some are fooled.

If you want a cleaner to clean your house and employ one you would be happy to allow them into your house but if someone broke into your house you wouldn't be happy to let them stay. Exactly the same with immigration, those we need/want and who apply properly and are approved are legally here those who come via boats or other illegal means are criminals. No country in the world wants illegal immigrants

 

[Hindsight]

If you want a cleaner to clean your house and employ one you would be happy to allow them into your house but if someone broke into your house you wouldn't be happy to let them stay. Exactly the same with immigration, those we need/want and who apply properly and are approved are legally here those who come via boats or other illegal means are criminals. No country in the world wants illegal immigrants

I was just listening to radio 4 news Rob. Interview and discussion with Kent Council Chairman and local MP. Wasn’t really listening but eventually my ears pricked up when stated 90% of asylum seekers are granted UK citzenship following processing. Thus if you or I were a boat person there is only a 1 in 10 chance of not being successful claiming asylum. Next point was made Rwanda will take maybe 200 annually upto a total of 500. So again if you were a boat person on French coast there would be assuming 40,000 folk next year cross about 0.5 to 1% chance of being sent to Rwanda. Seems good odds.

 

[essex man]

I was just listening to radio 4 news Rob. Interview and discussion with Kent Council Chairman and local MP. Wasn’t really listening but eventually my ears pricked up when stated 90% of asylum seekers are granted UK citzenship following processing. Thus if you or I were a boat person there is only a 1 in 10 chance of not being successful claiming asylum. Next point was made Rwanda will take maybe 200 annually upto a total of 500. So again if you were a boat person on French coast there would be assuming 40,000 folk next year cross about 0.5 to 1% chance of being sent to Rwanda. Seems good odds.

Exactly, if we allow most of them to stay, they will keep getting on boats.
I thought the rwanda plan was to send them there for their application to be processed?
It's pointless as a deterent otherwise, as you point out

 

[robs1]

I was just listening to radio 4 news Rob. Interview and discussion with Kent Council Chairman and local MP. Wasn’t really listening but eventually my ears pricked up when stated 90% of asylum seekers are granted UK citzenship following processing. Thus if you or I were a boat person there is only a 1 in 10 chance of not being successful claiming asylum. Next point was made Rwanda will take maybe 200 annually upto a total of 500. So again if you were a boat person on French coast there would be assuming 40,000 folk next year cross about 0.5 to 1% chance of being sent to Rwanda. Seems good odds.

I've heard a similar claim about how many are allowed to stay, doubt they are given citizenship. The question is then why do they risk their lives and give people traffickers thousands of pounds when there are other ways of claiming asylum? How many of those that arrive are women and kids ? It's claimed the vast majority are young males why are they fleeing yet women and kids aren't?