"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[GC74]

Local grain to us (Glen Isla) came off just right at the right time, late Feb, see they also got a great strike on the new WW . Would have been crap ever since as we've had so many cool grey days that never amounted to many heat units at all.. and incredible humidity

I finished spring oats on the 13th April don’t think there’s been a harvesting day since.....none with wind anyway it’s either fine and calm or cloudy damp and calm

 

[Kiwi Pete]

That's a wee bit satisfying.
Some not so very big mobs in some not so very big paddocks.

 

[bendigeidfran]

Always get a fair bit of scald going through the early lambs this time of year,
Plus a much longer rotation meaning the 2 mobs of early lambs are some distance from the yards and any effective foot bathing.

I've oft noticed how lambs love playing in exposed dirt, or sand, field lime... heaps of anything really.
So as abit of a experiment I'm putting little plastic footbaths filled with powder out,
Starting with 'dry bed' cubicle/ bedding disinfectant powder.
Abit pricey to use too often, so next up is cubicle lime.

So far, lambs are going proper nuts playing in the powder!

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I think scald has something to do with breeding, stoped using texels as a terminal ram, no scald in lambs.
A neighbours texel cought ten ewes last autumn and sure enough some of their lambs had scald this spring.
None of the other lambs in same group had it.

 

[Samcowman]

No, not quite what I meant - time your acceleration so you're at your fastest gear at heading date, instead of balance date. Balance date is more susceptible to change than the number of minutes of daylight, is one part of the equation; but delaying top gear for a few weeks means you don't hit that second round and find you have not enough grass

With you now Makes sense especially for here this year with it being late for the grass to get going properly

 

[Kiwi Pete]

With you now Makes sense especially for here this year with it being late for the grass to get going properly

It's one of the few things that is totally within our control especially if you house or trade stock or have them on a crop. Just start slower

 

[exmoor dave]

I think scald has something to do with breeding, stoped using texels as a terminal ram, no scald in lambs.
A neighbours texel cought ten ewes last autumn and sure enough some of their lambs had scald this spring.
None of the other lambs in same group had it.

I think it has a big influence.

But so does weather (rain after a dry spell seems to produce a outbreak)

And location/ field features- we have one particular field that is dreadful for scald, my best guess is that there is a particular low wide canopied tree that the sheep pack under in hot weather.
Same sheep different fields, hardly any problem.
Should fence the tree off but only grass keep

 

[Jonny B88]

Grand job @jonnyjon only way to start is to give it a crack.
I have the same issue, first year here and trialling mob grazing on one field, not used to seeing so much "waste"...!
Gabe Brown presentation he said he aims for the cattle to only eat one third of the cover crops, and trample two thirds back into the land to feed the soil.
Struggling to justify how I can afford to do this with my herbal leys, as I need all the grass I can get right now!
For mob grazing, I have heard you need upwards of 100,000 pounds per acre stocking rate (approx. 75 x 600kg cattle) to start to get the trampling effect, which again I am still struggling to get my head round. Have heard Neil Dennis (Canada) uses stocking rate over 1000,000 (yes one million!) pounds per acre, with multiple daily shifts.
May be worth a quick calculation to see what your rate is.

Good luck with it all, would be great to hear any lessons learnt.

I’m struggling with the idea of massive stock density too, but I think from trying it with a fairly low cover of grass, say 3500, it would make much more sense at a higher cover.

 

[Henarar]

I think it has a big influence.

But so does weather (rain after a dry spell seems to produce a outbreak)

And location/ field features- we have one particular field that is dreadful for scald, my best guess is that there is a particular low wide canopied tree that the sheep pack under in hot weather.
Same sheep different fields, hardly any problem.
Should fence the tree off but only grass keep

Spose really they need to be tightened up and moved more often so they don't all walk the same place to much but as you say with keep it may not be so easy as that

 

[Treg]

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Completely unrelated but slightly relevant. I thought of @martian when I read it on whatsapp, so here it is

A good story. It might be true. The principle seems plausible. However it was around then that the party set up the communal kitchens and insisted everyone only ate at them leading to between 30 and 50 million starving to death because they couldn't get to the kitchens.

Either version shows a failure to understand the consequences of a specific action.

It's a good book and well worth a read , it's along time since I read it but I remember abit where she says the communist party would parade a large pretent pig on the back of a lorry tell people that they could now produce pigs to that size so they wouldn't starve , they cheered & was happy even though deep down they knew it wasn't real.

 

[martian]

View attachment 959793

Completely unrelated but slightly relevant. I thought of @martian when I read it on whatsapp, so here it is

I know I used to try to shoot sparrows with an airgun when I was a kid and once killed one with a squash raquet, but I'm not sure why you thought of me...although I'd heard this story before and thought it was that idiot Mao who was responsible. The old farming books from the early 20th Century talk about sparrows as a menace and they'd put poison in the gutters to kill them. Bird proof grainstores sorted that, but sparrows practically an endangered species now, I love the few that hang around the farm yard, they are so cheerful.

On another note, just watched Seaspiracy on netflix, put me right off industrially harvested seafood...

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I know I used to try to shoot sparrows with an airgun when I was a kid and once killed one with a squash raquet, but I'm not sure why you thought of me...although I'd heard this story before and thought it was that idiot Mao who was responsible. The old farming books from the early 20th Century talk about sparrows as a menace and they'd put poison in the gutters to kill them. Bird proof grainstores sorted that, but sparrows practically an endangered species now, I love the few that hang around the farm yard, they are so cheerful.

On another note, just watched Seaspiracy on netflix, put me right off industrially harvested seafood...

Hence the old saying "worse things happen at sea"......

 

[Samcowman]

I’m struggling with the idea of massive stock density too, but I think from trying it with a fairly low cover of grass, say 3500, it would make much more sense at a higher cover.

It can work just as well at a lower cover you just need to move them on quicker which may then mean you are spending more time tending to them every day and get your work balance out of whack or just having to accept lower exit covers. The benefit of this would be the rest of the round would be building even more cover so sacrificing a few paddocks to build overall cover could be well worth it.

 

[JohnGalway]

It can work just as well at a lower cover you just need to move them on quicker which may then mean you are spending more time tending to them every day and get your work balance out of whack or just having to accept lower exit covers. The benefit of this would be the rest of the round would be building even more cover so sacrificing a few paddocks to build overall cover could be well worth it.

That's where batt latches and poly lifters come into their own. When the farmer hasn't time to but wants to move stock multiple times a day.

 

[JohnGalway]

Yep, I've made 7 so far, all out being put through their paces. Getting a decent timer with low standby energy requirements was the first problem to solve. Working on reliable limit switching is the next - reed switches are OK, but too much sideways pull on the wire meant the switch couldn't pick up the magnet and the winch ran for approx 10 hours with a broken string

my main issue is that I put it all "up top" where I could put it at ground level - allowing for bigger battery, better switching gear and even allow a small counterweight to assist the little winch. But the Pensagro ones are a mile ahead of my prototypes. I wanted only to get these going with a timer so I can play about with SMS triggering, but I'll be lucky to see them back as old mate loves his self-shifting sheeps

Just thinking with my electronically challenged brain....

Considerations for making a lifter...
I need a function where by power is sent to "reel in" to lift the wire.
I need a second function to "reel out" to drop the wire.
I believe I need a third option for power "off"
I'd also like an option where an audible sound or tune (let's make it the Monsanto song for the craic ) is played for a time before the wire is lifted - This I'm hoping allows ewes to move towards the "gate" but also call their lambs rather than rushing headlong through a gate, running the length of the opposite side of the fence and acting the bítch by calling lambs through it.

I'm wondering would timers suffice for the reel in reel out functions, if I knew how many seconds my winch needs to run to complete this operation. The height would be the same if using the same pole height. I wonder if battery strength or the temp of that particular day might interfere with that timing?

I'm not sure how I work the "off" function simply, but I may be over thinking it.

I can't see why a GSM function couldn't be incorporated as well.

The merry tune can be another timer.

That's a lot of timers but I'm not familiar with electronics so am taking the path of least resistance based on what little I know.

 

[Rob Garrett]

Just thinking with my electronically challenged brain....

Considerations for making a lifter...
I need a function where by power is sent to "reel in" to lift the wire.
I need a second function to "reel out" to drop the wire.
I believe I need a third option for power "off"
I'd also like an option where an audible sound or tune (let's make it the Monsanto song for the craic ) is played for a time before the wire is lifted - This I'm hoping allows ewes to move towards the "gate" but also call their lambs rather than rushing headlong through a gate, running the length of the opposite side of the fence and acting the bítch by calling lambs through it.

I'm wondering would timers suffice for the reel in reel out functions, if I knew how many seconds my winch needs to run to complete this operation. The height would be the same if using the same pole height. I wonder if battery strength or the temp of that particular day might interfere with that timing?

I'm not sure how I work the "off" function simply, but I may be over thinking it.

I can't see why a GSM function couldn't be incorporated as well.

The merry tune can be another timer.

That's a lot of timers but I'm not familiar with electronics so am taking the path of least resistance based on what little I know.

Thought you nearly had it sorted with your first prototype, just needs a switch adding to the actuator that cuts power feed from battery immediately after activation.

 

[JohnGalway]

Thought you nearly had it sorted with your first prototype, just needs a switch adding to the actuator that cuts power feed from battery immediately after activation.

This is a different project

The batt latch should work when the parts arrive

I do see the merit in the poly wire lifter, and I've been walking my land to see where it might work

I think what I need for the lifter is one timer that does different things at different times.

 

[Guleesh]

Just thinking with my electronically challenged brain....

Considerations for making a lifter...
I need a function where by power is sent to "reel in" to lift the wire.
I need a second function to "reel out" to drop the wire.
I believe I need a third option for power "off"
I'd also like an option where an audible sound or tune (let's make it the Monsanto song for the craic ) is played for a time before the wire is lifted - This I'm hoping allows ewes to move towards the "gate" but also call their lambs rather than rushing headlong through a gate, running the length of the opposite side of the fence and acting the bítch by calling lambs through it.

I'm wondering would timers suffice for the reel in reel out functions, if I knew how many seconds my winch needs to run to complete this operation. The height would be the same if using the same pole height. I wonder if battery strength or the temp of that particular day might interfere with that timing?

I'm not sure how I work the "off" function simply, but I may be over thinking it.

I can't see why a GSM function couldn't be incorporated as well.

The merry tune can be another timer.

That's a lot of timers but I'm not familiar with electronics so am taking the path of least resistance based on what little I know.

I've got the ewes behind electric just now for lambing, giving them 2 days between moves, Moves often involve collecting up all the abandoned lambs and dumping them over the fence until the ewes have got over the excitement of the fresh bite and come back for them. I did have one morning that they just charged through the fence before I'd lifted the wires, luckily the little metal ratchet on the reel bent under the tension and let it spool off more wire so no broken wires or posts. I use a couple of white pipes to lift the wires and the sheep now know that when I pick up the pipes it's time to go.

I like the idea of a tune or sound to give them time to prepare the lambs for the move, but I wonder if impatient ewes would just go for it on hearing the sound regardless of if the wires were lifted or not. That said I'm trying to hold them back a bit to limit intakes and bring lamb size down a bit, as they've been getting a bit big the last few days, I suppose hunger will be a factor in fuelling the manic rush for the new grass.

Interesting how a slight change in the behaviour of the animals can make the difference between it working and failing. Pretty wet here today but tomorrow I'll upgrade the next fence they meet from 3 strand to 6 and wander about with the white pipe in the hope the impatient ones that forgot their training get a quick refresher course.

 

[JohnGalway]

I've got the ewes behind electric just now for lambing, giving them 2 days between moves, Moves often involve collecting up all the abandoned lambs and dumping them over the fence until the ewes have got over the excitement of the fresh bite and come back for them. I did have one morning that they just charged through the fence before I'd lifted the wires, luckily the little metal ratchet on the reel bent under the tension and let it spool off more wire so no broken wires or posts. I use a couple of white pipes to lift the wires and the sheep now know that when I pick up the pipes it's time to go.

I like the idea of a tune or sound to give them time to prepare the lambs for the move, but I wonder if impatient ewes would just go for it on hearing the sound regardless of if the wires were lifted or not. That said I'm trying to hold them back a bit to limit intakes and bring lamb size down a bit, as they've been getting a bit big the last few days, I suppose hunger will be a factor in fuelling the manic rush for the new grass.

Interesting how a slight change in the behaviour of the animals can make the difference between it working and failing. Pretty wet here today but tomorrow I'll upgrade the next fence they meet from 3 strand to 6 and wander about with the white pipe in the hope the impatient ones that forgot their training get a quick refresher course.

They may well charge the fence, I hadn't considered that. Re-education or the mart would be the two solutions. Anything that causes me work get's the road here.

Last years few moves were a torture with young lambs. Too many obstacles on my land to gather the little sh1!s. Plus lambs with a bit of go in them would actively charge at me, rather than walk ahead of me towards the gap. Out of that frustration was born the idea of an audio preparatory tune.

 

[Jonny B88]

It can work just as well at a lower cover you just need to move them on quicker which may then mean you are spending more time tending to them every day and get your work balance out of whack or just having to accept lower exit covers. The benefit of this would be the rest of the round would be building even more cover so sacrificing a few paddocks to build overall cover could be well worth it.

Yea I agree. I think the big stock density is of more benefit if you put them into a cover that can handle that footfall and also provide enough feed to keep them settled.
The extreme densities are in my opinion of more benefit in the more brittle environments more so than our less brittle softer environment. Unless ground was like concrete here....which is very seldom. I cant see it being beneficial unless you are moving them every hour or something? What happens during the night in those cases? Batt latches, bigger areas or night shift moving? All in the dark?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

How about a lump on the lifting line, like a golf ball that the line passes through, which can be used to trigger a stop swith when it has lifted enough and another when it is back down. It wouldn't matter then if the lift rate of the winch varied.