"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Cool. What a special area that is where you reside. It has been about 10 years since I last saw or communicated with Bruce and Denise. Life got in the way. One of my favorite spots in the world.

Caught up with Bruce today. Took a dozen bales up to his home block from Ben's.

He says G'day, a bit apologetic that he never seems to get enough time to email folks or keep in contact, but he knew who you were (I had to drop your name, he was getting "close but no cigar" on the clues I gave him (organic sheep guy, from Washington State).

They will have moved since you were here, I put the baleage in the next gateway past the old house, in front of the new house (that Ben designed, he's a cracking architect).

Quite a substantial residence, with a much better view out to sea.

 

[Treg]

We can produce for a commodity market or a premium market the choice is ours, most supermarkets offer good premiums for certain native breeds & I know there are new schemes starting because these native schemes have been successful.
Organic although wobbled abit at the start of the pandemic is now paying 85p/ kg premium .
I know which market I'd prefer to aim for

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I like to set my sights higher, too.

You can always shift produce to the mainstream market if required, eg here is that the family I mentioned above (Organic to the core, these guys) don't actually get much of a premium for their lamb at the moment, but ironically get paid a packet for their wool
Just another string to the bow, as it were

I almost have the opposite "problem" in our operation - I actually believe if we put up a banner as Organic it would turn off some potential "mainstream" grazing clients, not because there's anything wrong with Organic but just because they don't really understand it fully.

(cue, images of weed nurseries, barren looking farms, etc)

Others would jump at it, of course, but everyone still seems to want to keep worming their youngstock etc and so I think our impending certification (kept that quiet!) won't be our USP but rather an extension of our belief in a natural systems approach to solving problems

 

[som farmer]

And are the FARMERS in that system better off ?

of course they are, they are producing what the mkt wants, and will pay best price for, if you produce something different, unless for a 'unique' niche market, you get paid less. But just like many dairy farmers, their is a desire to breed a nice uniform herd, and they take pride in that.
At the end of the day, we are in a business, and to live, we have to make a profit, to do so. Our world is changing, covid, brexit and climate, will fundementally alter our farming practices, for the better, or worse, nobody yet knows that.
You are talking about individualism, where you can produce what you want to, that is your choice, and you are happy to do so. Suckler cow production, in the UK, produces a very mixed end product, and for many, it is an extentsive system, and for many, relies on sfp to continue. Unless there is a radical change in guv policy, that will cease, end of. The reduced payments will focus on the 'environment', which will be decided by a group of nerds, sat in an office, that know b-all about farming, except it is destroying the planet.
If we look at it from a sustainable point, running big cont cows, producing 1 big calf a year, run on extensive system, is not environmentally friendly. It comes down to kg beef/acre, more smaller cows, producing more kg/ac, doing that off grass, are way more sustainable, environmentally friendly, if by doing that, you meet 'spec', and get a bonus, what is wrong with that ?

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Caught up with Bruce today. Took a dozen bales up to his home block from Ben's.

He says G'day, a bit apologetic that he never seems to get enough time to email folks or keep in contact, but he knew who you were (I had to drop your name, he was getting "close but no cigar" on the clues I gave him (organic sheep guy, from Washington State).

They will have moved since you were here, I put the baleage in the next gateway past the old house, in front of the new house (that Ben designed, he's a cracking architect).View attachment 981395
Quite a substantial residence, with a much better view out to sea.View attachment 981396

Glad you had the chance to say hello for me. Bruce was talking about building that retreat when I was there. They all where excited about it. I see they did get to use the trees in the house that once stood where the house is. It looks fabulous.

Anyway, this is off topic.

But thank you.

 

[Henarar]

Why are big cows not environmentally friendly?
Do you veiw elephants the same way

 

[Henarar]

course they are, they are producing what the mkt wants,

So am I, as I said they all sold

 

[Henarar]

It comes down to kg beef/acre,

No it doesn't

 

[Henarar]

Couldn't care a less about the s,markets and their efficiency (not that I think they are) couldn't care less about producing the most kg beef/acre either

 

[som farmer]

Couldn't care a less about the s,markets and their efficiency (not that I think they are) couldn't care less about producing the most kg beef/acre either

that's your choice, for many, it is a need to maximise income.
as for big v little cows, you really should know the answer to that,
and for accounting reasons, kg/hectare, is the only way, to work out your efficiency, both in terms of profit, and carbon production or sequestration. And l was under the impression, that regen/holistic, is about looking after the planet, by looking/altering the way we farm.
but, each to his/her own, l think we disagree.

 

[Treg]

You are talking about individualism, where you can produce what you want to, that is your choice, and you are happy to do so. Suckler cow production, in the UK, produces a very mixed end product, and for many, it is an extentsive system, and for many, relies on sfp to continue.

Not saying your wrong @som farmer but go & buy Organic Beef in the supermarket for several weeks and see how consistent a product it is , now its made up of all sorts of breeds but they will have all been grass fed & out side for a majority of their lives , then go and buy normal beef and see how inconsistent it is grain fed, grass-fed, in doors , out doors, on slates, pretty much a lottery for a consumer.
My mum never bought meat from a supermarket until I went Organic, always from the local butcher, now she prefers Organic from the supermarket because its consistently good, she will buy roasting joints from the butchers ( never seen a Organic roasting joint in a supermarket??? ) can go from fantastic one week to tough & tastless the next.

 

[Karliboy]

So these fields will have had 90ish days rest since first grazing and although there’s quite a bit of dense fodder there I feel it looks crap and needs some more clovers etc in there to spice it up a bit if you get me
I’m thinking a clover blend of sorts from barenbrug maybe some plantain and to strip graze it down tight with no back fence and to throw on seed as cows graze forward hopefully should be out of each field in around a 7days. Or would anyone approach it differently. ( I don’t want to mow it) and will be in September soo. So if I’m doing it I need to do it now as such before things start to cool off to much.

 

[Treg]

So these fields will have had 90ish days rest since first grazing and although there’s quite a bit of dense fodder there I feel it looks crap and needs some more clovers etc in there to spice it up a bit if you get me
I’m thinking a clover blend of sorts from barenbrug maybe some plantain and to strip graze it down tight with no back fence and to throw on seed as cows graze forward hopefully should be out of each field in around a 7days. Or would anyone approach it differently. ( I don’t want to mow it) and will be in September soo. So if I’m doing it I need to do it now as such before things start to cool off to much.
View attachment 981425View attachment 981426View attachment 981427

Why not spread the seeds in front the cows , then they can tread them in for you.

 

[Karliboy]

Why not spread the seeds in front the cows , then they can tread them in for you.

that’s the initial plan
Just wondering if others would do it differently

 

[Henarar]

Not saying your wrong @som farmer but go & buy Organic Beef in the supermarket for several weeks and see how consistent a product it is , now its made up of all sorts of breeds but they will have all been grass fed & out side for a majority of their lives , then go and buy normal beef and see how inconsistent it is grain fed, grass-fed, in doors , out doors, on slates, pretty much a lottery for a consumer.
My mum never bought meat from a supermarket until I went Organic, always from the local butcher, now she prefers Organic from the supermarket because its consistently good, she will buy roasting joints from the butchers ( never seen a Organic roasting joint in a supermarket??? ) can go from fantastic one week to tough & tastless the next.

Agree with that, don't think its necessarily cos its organic though more the grass fed/outdoors bit and maybe a bit older ?
why don't you knock one of your own bullocks down for the freezer so your mum can have some roasting joints ? we have been doing one a year for years now and wouldn't go back, mind you there is more difference in our own lamb, bloody lovely, live like a king I do

 

[Henarar]

that's your choice, for many, it is a need to maximise income.
as for big v little cows, you really should know the answer to that,
and for accounting reasons, kg/hectare, is the only way, to work out your efficiency, both in terms of profit, and carbon production or sequestration. And l was under the impression, that regen/holistic, is about looking after the planet, by looking/altering the way we farm.
but, each to his/her own, l think we disagree.

never worked out how many kgs per acre we produce but have worked out profit overall of Corse but not profit per acre, the way the land we farm is it would be difficult.
not sure what it has to do with looking after the planet ? but having said that if we were all a bit less efficient in the amount we produced per acre that would be good for the planet

 

[Treg]

Agree with that, don't think its necessarily cos its organic though more the grass fed/outdoors bit and maybe a bit older ?
why don't you knock one of your own bullocks down for the freezer so your mum can have some roasting joints ? we have been doing one a year for years now and wouldn't go back, mind you there is more difference in our own lamb, bloody lovely, live like a king I do

That's what I was trying to get across was that the Organic is probably all different breeds, it's the grass out door bit gives the flavour & consistency.

 

[Henarar]

That's what I was trying to get across was that the Organic is probably all different breeds, it's the grass out door bit gives the flavour & consistency.

Yet we are encouraged to finish them faster indoors and more so called efficiently which is worse for the environment and the product.
The more different outlets for beef and lamb there are the better even if some are less so called efficient

 

[som farmer]

Not saying your wrong @som farmer but go & buy Organic Beef in the supermarket for several weeks and see how consistent a product it is , now its made up of all sorts of breeds but they will have all been grass fed & out side for a majority of their lives , then go and buy normal beef and see how inconsistent it is grain fed, grass-fed, in doors , out doors, on slates, pretty much a lottery for a consumer.
My mum never bought meat from a supermarket until I went Organic, always from the local butcher, now she prefers Organic from the supermarket because its consistently good, she will buy roasting joints from the butchers ( never seen a Organic roasting joint in a supermarket??? ) can go from fantastic one week to tough & tastless the next.

we know all that, the vast majority of the public don't, and feed crap to their kids, the point is, we cannot all sell into the tiny % that do know.
It is that bulk market, that takes 75%+ of our product, the price is set by those buying it, for processing.
we are looking at it from a farmers point, it ceases to have anything to do, with us, from then on, you need to look at it, from the wholesalers view, he has to turn it into something his customers want, nothing to do with us. He will pay the most, for product, that meets their spec, it is simply less work, hassle.
We know how ruthless the s/mkts are, and how they work, and they require 'even size' packs, because that is what they have taught their customers, to want. Top spec,= best price, the grid was designed for the buyers, not for our benefit, but for theirs.
Very shortly, we will/could/hopefully not, be competing with global sourcing, which means it will become more and more important, for us to hit the best spec, for best price. We will be unable to compete, with imported bulk product, our cost base is to high, simple as that, we cannot produce product, to match the large beef producing countries, for the price they can do it. How does that affect UK product ? Easy, catering outlets will/have always sourced on price, cheapest will be imported, and we cannot match their COP. So we have to rely on quality, and match our customers requirements, it is the only way, we can compete.

 

[Treg]

Yet we are encouraged to finish them faster indoors and more so called efficiently which is worse for the environment and the product.
The more different outlets for beef and lamb there are the better even if some are less so called efficient

Yes well the only ones really pushing that are the ones who will gain financially.....Mr Harper and his feed firm chums.