"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[ShooTa]

i think - from now almost being doing this for a whole year the biggest PITA is jumping from one mob to 2 or more -unexpectedly so that a field you had planned on is taken out - it is easily taken care of at the time its the X months later when it doesnt come back strong enough so its out a 2nd time... - as such im set stocking a field now with lambs until i can get them off site. - will do better this year.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

i think - from now almost being doing this for a whole year the biggest PITA is jumping from one mob to 2 or more -unexpectedly so that a field you had planned on is taken out - it is easily taken care of at the time its the X months later when it doesnt come back strong enough so its out a 2nd time... - as such im set stocking a field now with lambs until i can get them off site. - will do better this year.

Yeah, more mobs are a right ball-ache hence the reason for spending up large on Kiwitech here. Just the water alone takes exponentially more time and effort.

But, you can also run into problems with mob consolidation.. such as lambs hanging around or calves not doing what they should, until you get that abundance of feed.. again I should be able to have one mob on a 20 day round while another is on 30, another on 90 etc etc and have the whole lot done in 30 mins
Otherwise it'd be a full day's exercise and that's not sustainable
And I'd then have to have another nightmare when I want a holiday, to train someone and get all the fences put up, or come back to a mess.. so the painting by numbers approach is an easier concept to get a townie neighbour to do (they don't know you're meant to have hungry animals, a massive advantage)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Might need to give this a chomp soon?

 

[onesiedale]

Could you persuade them to agree to going right in hard on just one field for 3 or 4 years and see what it does (pete's >250,000 kgLwt/Ha and 3 or 4 moves a day)? If they saw the increased production for themselves (and the greater resistance to poaching and the improved infiltrating rate) they may be persuaded.

This is probably what will be the best route for now. To be fair, I think we are closer than most to shifting the paradigm. Dare I say it, but I think the 'Holistic' label doesn't help change mindsets. It almost sounds more way out than 'organic'.

We have never been big users of fertilizer or sprays, like I said before, the biggest leap is that of leaving the residuals, but more importantly, ensuring those residuals have had a serious stocking density over them.

 

[Macsky]

I am content that the bike won't fall over.
However, the rest of the team here are not so convinced . I really am having to tread a fine line of diplomacy at times. Especially when it comes to stocking pressure and residuals.
The difficulty for me is in getting the rest of the team to see the Whole.
Maybe I'm just crap at communicating the vision.

You mean crap at communicating the Voisin? [emoji23]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is probably what will be the best route for now. To be fair, I think we are closer than most to shifting the paradigm. Dare I say it, but I think the 'Holistic' label doesn't help change mindsets. It almost sounds more way out than 'organic'.

We have never been big users of fertilizer or sprays, like I said before, the biggest leap is that of leaving the residuals, but more importantly, ensuring those residuals have had a serious stocking density over them.

Use "regenerative" in your thoughts and communications?

Use @Kidds example - pruning apple trees - how much does he lop off??
Ground level, plant new trees every 7 years? Or just enough to maintain the plants at their optimum point "for the time of year."..??
Does he prune the trees when flowering or just budding??
What would happen if he pruned them hard while fruiting??
What would happen to the operation if he simply cut them down in the springtime, machines make it easy??

So these perennial, permanent plants aren't dependent on stored seedling "vigour", but by expressing themselves as plants and being maintained.

 

[ShooTa]

Oh i like thats i do...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Trust me to have a different view on a situation, @ShooTa

It's never happened before!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Healthy soil and health plants are the basis of biological capital.
Biological capital may be your most valuable asset
Biological capital such as healthy soil and plants can save expenses, make more production, make livestock healthier, and more.
Walt Davis 1 | Mar 18, 2019
As farmers and ranchers, we deal with three kinds of capital: Fiscal capital (money) intellectual capital (knowledge) and biological capital (life and the conditions that promote life).

The first two of these are well understood by most people. It is not hard to tell when you don’t know what you are doing or when you are out of money.

Biological capital, which is at least as valuable as the first two, is not nearly so well understood. This is unfortunate because biological capital is real wealth that can be generated solely with well-thought-out management.

For example, biological capital is what renders much of the money, time and effort we spend fighting pests not only unnecessary but counterproductive. It is the healthy soil that grows nutrient-balanced forage that produces healthy and productive animals. It is the animals, bred and raised on this healthy forage and selected to perform under the present management. It is low levels of pathogens, parasites, and pests of both plants and animals, kept under control by the multitude of mutually beneficial relationships that form between all members of the soil-plant-animal-wealth-human complex we call a ranch -- if we give them a chance.

These good things happen when management is directed toward promoting what we want rather than fighting what we don’t want. Biological capital is formed when management – whether natural or human-designed – promotes rather than destroys life. This sounds a little sophomoric but is actually profound. Amazing things happen when management fosters wellbeing of all parts of the soil-plant-animal-wealth-human complex.

I can feel waves of disbelief wafting through the ionosphere: “What do you mean? I should not kill weeds in the corn patch or bugs in the orchard? If I don’t control the pests, they will put me out of business.” The last statement is true. Pests, from horn flies to ox warbles to locoweed and mesquite must be controlled if we are to have viable agriculture. The secret is in how that control is achieved.

Much of modern agricultural practice is not terribly different from burning down the barn because it is infested with fleas. Too often, the cure is worse than the disease. Several years ago, one of the land grant universities set up a demonstration to test “organic agriculture against conventional.” They took a piece of ground that had been in cultivation for years and divided it in half. One half was cropped using all the modern practices: Fertilizer was applied as per soil test, herbicides, insecticides, and so forth. The second half was cropped using nothing but some cow manure. To no one’s surprise, the “organic” plot failed, and the university put out a paper saying organic agriculture does not work.

In reality, organic agriculture works quite well from all standpoints: Productivity, profitability, ecologically, provided that biological capital is in good supply. Building biological capital under conventional management is extremely difficult since most conventional practices such as tillage, fallow and chemicals of all sorts destroy biological capital and the conditions that build it. Rejuvenation must start with the soil, most importantly, with the life in the soil. The organic farmers’ advantage starts when robust and diverse soil life becomes the norm for his operation.

It is this soil life that spoon feeds mineral nutrients to plants in available forms and proper amounts. Well-nourished plants growing in life-filled soil are remarkably resistant to disease and to insect damage. Abundant and healthy soil life is the factor that creates the conditions that control pests of all kinds. Contrary to what the poison peddlers tell us, most soil life forms -- from fungi to bacteria -- are beneficial. Problems arise when our management interferes with natural balance. Soil life also promotes the physical conditions that allow soils to take in and hold both water and air. Life-filled soils, and the plants grown in them, tolerate both drought and flooding much better than soils short of life.

Nutrient-rich forage, when presented with good stockmanship at the proper stage of growth, rules out the need for many of the inputs that reduce the profit margins of most operations. Balanced nutrition, with all essential nutrients present in proper proportions and proper availability forms, builds robust immune systems and healthy animals.

Healthy soils grow healthy plants which grow healthy animals which grow healthy bank accounts. Having ample biological capital is a requirement for creating a ranch that runs on sunshine, rainfall and management.

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

Evening all, just had a pleasant 25-page catchup.

I've probably said it before but reading all the discussions on animal size vs profitability always resonates with me because it is 100% true in my industry too - alcoholic beverages.

The smaller the container you sell in the lower turnover per package but the higher profit per litre... hence if you can only produce X litres then you should be selling in 330ml bottles/cans not 50L kegs. 99% of people seem to have it hammered into them that volume is the goal, sell 100,000 tonnes of wheat at £100 a tonne instead of selling 1 tonne of handmade bread at £4 per 800g loaf.

I have definitely used this example before but I know brewers who make £30k profit selling all their beer by the pint (only making 2-300L a week) and many who lose money hand over fist selling hundreds of thousands of litres to trade in bulk.

Maybe all those farmers apparently losing money with big herds would be better off selling a handful of animals as individual kg packets of meat.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It depends if you'll do whatever it takes, or believe that bellowing will achieve more good?

I realised that by being a smallholder in amongst some pretty large operations (it's all relative) that you simply have to do what it takes. This involves changing how you see and do things!

And so, if I can have small cattle that raise two average calves I will be better off than with medium size cattle that raise 0.8 big calves with a vet bill attached to the losses.
It gives me an extra calf, and a less hungry cow for a start, but one calf can "be given away as a commodity" and the best can be kept to build a herd with - we can have the odd win-win deal but conventional thinking is that this is hard work - and they are correct.
They don't have time for fostering calves, and they're probably correct again.. although they do have the ability, the desire isn't there and so they lose an opportunity.

Your big beer brewery doesn't have the desire to bottle every drop of brew and again that's a costly "preference" - these big empty vessels simply don't do whatever it takes, so they will never achieve to the same degree as those who make the small adjustments to pander to the customer.
And that's what I see the likes of Henarar and Treg doing, even if it makes their grazing system harder to work, breeding what their customer wants to buy - even if (no offence intended by this) the cattle aren't actually what the buyer's landscape can handle.

So in this respect the housed cattle and feedlotted cattle are really a separate context from ranched cattle, because the pressure of "fitting the landscape" only partially applies, when they cease to fit then "man" fills in the gaps.
So I'm beginning to see my housing for calves as a completely separate franchise to the ranching/grazing operation - we'll aim for an outdoor-run herd of smaller more efficient cattle, but still run a shed full of dairy heifers (for eg) to assist them in the landscape maintenance role and pay all the costs.

Some things will likely have to go, ie rearing calves and the sheep, although profitable they do detract from the bigger picture, that same time could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[texas pete]

It depends if you'll do whatever it takes, or believe that bellowing will achieve more good?

I realised that by being a smallholder in amongst some pretty large operations (it's all relative) that you simply have to do what it takes. This involves changing how you see and do things!

And so, if I can have small cattle that raise two average calves I will be better off than with medium size cattle that raise 0.8 big calves with a vet bill attached to the losses.
It gives me an extra calf, and a less hungry cow for a start, but one calf can "be given away as a commodity" and the best can be kept to build a herd with - we can have the odd win-win deal but conventional thinking is that this is hard work - and they are correct.
They don't have time for fostering calves, and they're probably correct again.. although they do have the ability, the desire isn't there and so they lose an opportunity.

Your big beer brewery doesn't have the desire to bottle every drop of brew and again that's a costly "preference" - these big empty vessels simply don't do whatever it takes, so they will never achieve to the same degree as those who make the small adjustments to pander to the customer.
And that's what I see the likes of Henarar and Treg doing, even if it makes their grazing system harder to work, breeding what their customer wants to buy - even if (no offence intended by this) the cattle aren't actually what the buyer's landscape can handle.

So in this respect the housed cattle and feedlotted cattle are really a separate context from ranched cattle, because the pressure of "fitting the landscape" only partially applies, when they cease to fit then "man" fills in the gaps.
So I'm beginning to see my housing for calves as a completely separate franchise to the ranching/grazing operation - we'll aim for an outdoor-run herd of smaller more efficient cattle, but still run a shed full of dairy heifers (for eg) to assist them in the landscape maintenance role and pay all the costs.

Some things will likely have to go, ie rearing calves and the sheep, although profitable they do detract from the bigger picture, that same time could be better spent elsewhere.

Bellowing works for babies!!

Your flexibility and willingness to adapt are the key. Versus your point about being born in to it and doing it “the way it’s always been done “. Or an inability to see past the end of your nose.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Bellowing works for babies!!

Your flexibility and willingness to adapt are the key. Versus your point about being born in to it and doing it “the way it’s always been done “. Or an inability to see past the end of your nose.

Sometimes (TFF times esp.) I think it's our definition of "working" that can be flawed?
It's people working for crops, working for lambs and calves, working at improving soils etc - but they can't see that it could work better, because they deny examples of it working better elsewhere on systems, but simply lack of regulation.

"Oh, but it isn't pee-wet where you are all the time" didn't fix last year's UK drought, did it?
Whereas that's more what I'm dealing with on a yearly basis, with exceptions.
And my dry year would just about see @Global ovine into a tailspin with what to do with all the grass, and he's about 3 hours drive away - if he managed his pasture the way I do he'd be out of business, and likely vice-versa.. so it's hugely beneficial to look from the outside in, and also further outward!!

I remember a particularly unpopular guy who was adamant that bTb was being viewed in completely the wrong way, I remember @llamedos had to lock the thread in the end, all because this bloke had a different perspective and that made him "weird"

So when we can take a more dispassionate approach then it can definitely prevent the "internal bullying" from altering our perceived reality, it's what made Mythbusters such a popular TV show and this and Roy's thread fairly popular: many lack the wish to look at themselves, for fear of what they find

 

[ShooTa]

^^ i had the - oh youll be moving those that have lambed out so you can feed them normally........
im doing lambing my way - feed them at dusk - quick spin round before a late supper - then go to bed - up early am to see whos done well.. they dont tend to lamb overnight and theres not lots of dicking around which spooks them .. still being asked why im not doing 3 night checks
oh well - must make some time to make my grazing plan fo this year as i keep putting it off.

 

[Jungle Bill]

Sometimes (TFF times esp.) I think it's our definition of "working" that can be flawed?
It's people working for crops, working for lambs and calves, working at improving soils etc - but they can't see that it could work better, because they deny examples of it working better elsewhere on systems, but simply lack of regulation.

"Oh, but it isn't pee-wet where you are all the time" didn't fix last year's UK drought, did it?
Whereas that's more what I'm dealing with on a yearly basis, with exceptions.
And my dry year would just about see @Global ovine into a tailspin with what to do with all the grass, and he's about 3 hours drive away - if he managed his pasture the way I do he'd be out of business, and likely vice-versa.. so it's hugely beneficial to look from the outside in, and also further outward!!

I remember a particularly unpopular guy who was adamant that bTb was being viewed in completely the wrong way, I remember @llamedos had to lock the thread in the end, all because this bloke had a different perspective and that made him "weird"

So when we can take a more dispassionate approach then it can definitely prevent the "internal bullying" from altering our perceived reality, it's what made Mythbusters such a popular TV show and this and Roy's thread fairly popular: many lack the wish to look at themselves, for fear of what they find

This is why I find writing down your ‘Holistic Context’ so useful.
If your goals for your farm, land and life are up on the office wall for all to see and you make a point of questioning every decision against them to see if the proposed action will take you nearer to where you want to be or further way life becomes simpler.
It is also a great way of dealing with sales people and bemused neighbours as you can lead them through your decision making process and justify your actions - then ask them to justify in a similar way something you have noticed them doing.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

This is why I find writing down your ‘Holistic Context’ so useful.
If your goals for your farm, land and life are up on the office wall for all to see and you make a point of questioning every decision against them to see if the proposed action will take you nearer to where you want to be or further way life becomes simpler.
It is also a great way of dealing with sales people and bemused neighbours as you can lead them through your decision making process and justify your actions - then ask them to justify in a similar way something you have noticed them doing.

Brilliant! Show them our Holistic Context poster and ask THEM to explain how their product / service moves us nearer to our Holistic Goals

That would scare them off

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Here are things to monitor in your pastures to build a resilient, highly productive grazing system.
R. P. 'Doc' Cooke | Mar 12, 2019

One of the worst feelings I’ve ever had concerning my pastures was when I realized just how much better the roadside was than our pastures where our cattle were grazing.

The same can mostly be said about my use of salt fertilizer and our history with broiler litter. As a matter of a fact I’ll just remind everyone that we do not break natural model rules and principles, but they will break us.

Mississippi grazier Gordon Hazard used to say that when money was gone it was gone. Most money I’ve seen spent on pastures for quick fixes is gone.

My No. 1 principle is that nature loves and needs diversity. Nature loves a loaded seed bank, covered soil, lots of growth, huge plant diversity, carbon in quantity, and lots of critters on top of and under the soil surface. If you don’t have huge numbers of birds, dung beetles, earthworms, voles, moles, and more, you should ask yourself why? Clean farming and short grazing will kill your operation. If your ponds are not covered with bank growth and full of frogs, they are nasty. Birds are your first pasture cleaning crew and frogs are your first pond cleaner.

My No. 1 thing to monitor is outside my pastures. Look at the roadside. The prettiest legume field I have ever seen could not beat the nearby roadside.

Think about many of the roadsides you have seen, assuming the county isn't spraying with herbicides. In most cases if we can match the roadside we are boogying, and the truth is we can beat the roadside. Yet that is seldom done.

To make progress we must ask ourselves: What are the characteristics of highly productive, biologically diverse soil and land?


I consider these ideal characteristics of good land, and the ideal goal to manage for. (This is what we manage for)

• Limestone base, well-drained with gentle slopes.
• Ample rainfall of 25 to 35 inches annually is near perfect.
• Soil organic matter in the top six inches of 5% or greater.
• Soil pH of 6.8.
• Colloidal saturation with 75% calcium, 10 -15% magnesium, 2-5% potassium, 3-5% trace minerals.
• Cation exchange capacity above 15.
• One ton of annual plant growth per four inches moisture.
• Black colored soil.
• Well-drained, well-aggregated soil, and well-stocked with birds, earthworms, dung beetles, mole, voles, field mice, and more. By the way - to have birds you have to have ample nesting sites. Don’t build them, just don’t destroy them! We need blackberry, buck brush, rose bushes, trees, thistles, iron weed.
• Highly diverse plant life that is 90% perennial and consist of 100 or more species of grasses, legumes and forbs per acre. The high-seral warm-season plants should predominate after May 10. Annuals and cool-season plants should make up 10-30% of the mix on an annual basis. But remember that every year will be different. Diverse, well-managed pasture should be highly productive every year.
• Have ample shade and water and freedom of soil compaction or mud or ruts or cow trails.
• Year-around grazing, since hay-feeding days are very costly.
• In winter - have tall, medium and short plants that are red, brown, yellow and green. Have almost no white. Well-mineralized plants stand up and don’t melt until spring. It is still early fall in our pastures in mid-December or later.
• In spring - Have medium brown, short brown, and lots of green.
• In summer - Have mostly green, with tall, medium and short plant heights. By mid-July the short has a large brown component. This holds moisture for the soil and holds manure together for cattle health. The brown is feeding the microbial life. Red and white clover are two of our favorites. But remember that clover requires calcium and magnesium.
• In fall - Have jungles of tall plants with huge amounts of new medium and short growth.

These diverse, well-managed pastures have major component changes every year.

I’ll take a minute here and remind everyone that nature requires and depends on destruction and death. Death is just as normal as life.

Every year will be different from a standpoint of moisture, storms, sunlight and market and all these things are mostly out of our control. But with information-rich land and using boom and bust management the swings have minimal effects. Our job is simply to tweak and cushion the natural model.

Things to avoid

It's worth discussing the things you generally will not see at my 499 Ranch or on similar ranches managed with natural-model principles. These are not so much things to manage against, but things you should not manage for.

1. Mono, bi-, or tri-culture clean plant growth.
2. Multi-wire interior fencing.
3. Gates.
4. Lack of predators.
5. Mowers/brush hogs.
6. Hay.
7. Barns.
8. Water troughs every 1,600 feet.
9. Lots of iron.

In summary

Remember also that mankind's No. 1 mistake concerning pasture plants is partial plant recovery.

Our No. 2 mistake is mining and spraying. These are done with the plow, the uncontrolled cow, the hay-making process, the feedyard, and lack of well-managed, adaptive grazing.

Manure and urine can be soil and plant builders or toxic waste, depending on concentration and location.

Cattle are our No. 1 tool to build our land, wildlife and water resource -- or they can be our demise. The choice is ours.

Beef from grass is the No. 1 health food in the world.

This business is based on the use of healthy cattle grazing in high densities to harvest and build and renew the plant and soil resource and create wealth in the form of biological and physical cash. We market the excess production and save no less than 20% of the proceeds every year.

The No. 1 profit center in this business is to retain the money that most producers are spending. Folks, this business is not a "big lick" or home run deal. It is a series of making a profit every year and piling it up. You have got to keep your hand on the pile. It can easily and quickly blow away. Once it’s gone it’s gone.

Also remember that everything relates to everything else. Declaring war with the natural model is a big, big mistake.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is just at my gateway into the yard.... on gravel...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

clover coming away, 12 hours behind the cattle

you can see from the leaflet size how it's adapted to survive sheep overgrazing it, hence my oversowing some new clovers on top.