"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

Got most of the cattle out now, finished calving for a bit just a few odd ones till the autumn lot, Its been lovely and warm the last few days, the grass should be growing well now, the hedges and trees are greening up, spring has sprung

 

[bitwrx]

Thanks for that.
Most of my ranch would be index 0 or 1 based on their Olsen P, no wonder I am going broke

Tell me more... What's an Olsen? Why doesn't it matter in your case?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Tell me more... What's an Olsen? Why doesn't it matter in your case?

Olsen P is a really simple soil test to establish phosphate levels as an indicator of fertility... IIRC bicarb is the extractant used, and it's done on a volumetric basis

The main problems in terms of relevance here:
My soil is less compacted, so what's going on in the top 4 inches isn't really indicative when your plants have 4 feet of roots - most P is deep, where the biology is
High OM + low bulk density means a skewed reading - remember this is a bicarbonate extract test
And, I don't buy fertiliser as a rule, so I'd expect my phosphate reserves to be very deep, well chelated, and not show up very well on an Olsen test - it's simply designed to sell coals to Newcastle

 

[bitwrx]

Olsen P is a really simple soil test to establish phosphate levels as an indicator of fertility... IIRC bicarb is the extractant used, and it's done on a volumetric basis

The main problems in terms of relevance here:
My soil is less compacted, so what's going on in the top 4 inches isn't really indicative when your plants have 4 feet of roots - most P is deep, where the biology is
High OM + low bulk density means a skewed reading - remember this is a bicarbonate extract test
And, I don't buy fertiliser as a rule, so I'd expect my phosphate reserves to be very deep, well chelated, and not show up very well on an Olsen test - it's simply designed to sell coals to Newcastle

Thanks.
Just did a bit of googling. This doc has some useful tidbits: http://www.soiltech.co.nz/articles/...FjAFegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0aux0hhiFL6iU0lV_2yAyV
In particular:
- Olsen p doesn't account for P available from organic sources (e.g. decomposing organic matter)
- the bicarb solution technique doesn't reflect real life, where water is the solvent in which nutrients (incl P) find their way into plants.

 

[Karliboy]

17Cows 1 bull and 4 calves into this this morning
About 0.25 acre what you can see is what they got more or less

Out this evening and back to a round bale.
I’d like a little more off this as grass had booted and gone to seed already, and cows aren't over hungry I can’t leave them over night as it’s a risk if they escape into the new build until they finish there new boundary walls and fences and they would be of down the road

Another 0.25 acre for tomorrow hopefully on the left.
I may let them have this and then let them have the full 0.5 acre for the 3rd day what do you guys think

You can see the seed above.


Once I get this little paddock out the way it will get easier apart from the drinking water situation but Hey ho I’ll work something out with the pizza slices I showed weeks ago.
Infact there maybe no water in that well now due to dry so I may need to create some avenues to creat access back to farm for water roll on Tuesday.

 

[bitwrx]

Looks proper. Are they eating the seedheads on the bit they've grazed? Would you normally expect them to?

No idea on your two day / three day dilemma. I'm at least a few steps behind you on the learning curve...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks.
Just did a bit of googling. This doc has some useful tidbits: http://www.soiltech.co.nz/articles/...FjAFegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0aux0hhiFL6iU0lV_2yAyV
In particular:
- Olsen p doesn't account for P available from organic sources (e.g. decomposing organic matter)
- the bicarb solution technique doesn't reflect real life, where water is the solvent in which nutrients (incl P) find their way into plants.

Nice, thanks for that, it kinda confirms my own thoughts.
It seems to have really little use in terms of "growth potential" but great use in terms of "selling more phosphates" as some of the best paddocks on our dairy had single digit Olsen P and some of the really average paddocks were up in the 30-45 range!
So what you have to say about the test not measuring "bound to OM phosphate" probably indicates that those better paddocks simply had more in use and less in solution.

As I said the soil doesn't care about human science, just as farms aren't addicted to fertiliser - farm accounts may be

 

[Kiwi Pete]

17Cows 1 bull and 4 calves into this this morning
About 0.25 acre what you can see is what they got more or less

Out this evening and back to a round bale.
I’d like a little more off this as grass had booted and gone to seed already, and cows aren't over hungry I can’t leave them over night as it’s a risk if they escape into the new build until they finish there new boundary walls and fences and they would be of down the road

Another 0.25 acre for tomorrow hopefully on the left.
I may let them have this and then let them have the full 0.5 acre for the 3rd day what do you guys think

You can see the seed above.


Once I get this little paddock out the way it will get easier apart from the drinking water situation but Hey ho I’ll work something out with the pizza slices I showed weeks ago.
Infact there maybe no water in that well now due to dry so I may need to create some avenues to creat access back to farm for water roll on Tuesday.

Looks good, the only way to learn what happens at different stock density is to try, observe, and then maybe replan if it works better or worse than the rest.
I have certain areas I don't graze with cattle, and it is simply a lottery.

this had 330 sheep and 25 calves on it for about a day, if I let bulls in here they would just climb on the compost heap and climb in around the water tanks and generally annoy me

 

[Blaithin]

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2019/04/17/building-healthy-soil-for-forage-crops/

 

[yellowbelly]

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2019/04/17/building-healthy-soil-for-forage-crops/

Just comes up with this here, I'm afraid.....

Apologies! The site you are trying to visit is not available in your area.

Please note, to comply with GDPR we have purged our newsletter lists and databases for anyone located within the European Union.

Thank you for your interest.

Roll on Brexit, then we'll be able to read it

 

[Crofter64]

Got most of the cattle out now, finished calving for a bit just a few odd ones till the autumn lot, Its been lovely and warm the last few days, the grass should be growing well now, the hedges and trees are greening up, spring has sprung

just add music and you could have the making of a Disney classic there.

 

[Blaithin]

Oh dear, I didn’t know Canadian Cattlemen was such elicit and forbidden material

 

[Crofter64]

I hope everyone had a happy Easter.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2019/04/17/building-healthy-soil-for-forage-crops/

A good piece. I especially like this in relation to the current climate change debate:

"Blain Hjertaas, farmer and holistic management educator at Redvers, Sask., echoes these principles. He has focused on the resulting carbon sequestration. Hjertaas and Peter Donavan of the Soil Carbon Coalition sampled sites on three different farms in southeastern Saskatchewan in the fall of 2011. The results indicated an average carbon sequestration rate of 27.8 tonnes per hectare.

Using an annual carbon footprint per person of 18.9 tonnes and the average sequestration rate of the three farms, each hectare farmed regeneratively will more than sequester an individual Canadian’s footprint, Hjertaas writes on HolisticManagement.ca. Canada has 65 million hectares of farmland, he adds."

Just comes up with this here, I'm afraid.....

Apologies! The site you are trying to visit is not available in your area.

Please note, to comply with GDPR we have purged our newsletter lists and databases for anyone located within the European Union.

Thank you for your interest.

Roll on Brexit, then we'll be able to read it

It put up the warning here but then let me in.

Perhaps I'm not such a radical

 

[yellowbelly]

Perhaps I'm not such a radical

Perhaps Hertfordshire has already 'Brexited' and not told us

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Perhaps Hertfordshire has already 'Brexited' and not told us

 

[texas pete]

Just comes up with this here, I'm afraid.....

Apologies! The site you are trying to visit is not available in your area.

Please note, to comply with GDPR we have purged our newsletter lists and databases for anyone located within the European Union.

Thank you for your interest.

Roll on Brexit, then we'll be able to read it

We're going to have to re-learn how to wipe our own arses first though.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The first issue of the Regener8 magazine is out now folks. Access it here:

https://issuu.com/regener8/docs/regener8april2019?e=36817679/69176684

(Warning for those on slow connections: It's 79Mb )

 

[Crofter64]

What 30 Years of Study Tell Us About Grazing and Carbon Sequestration
By Kathy Voth and Rachel Gilker / November 13, 2017 / 16 Comments
Has anyone read this series in ‘On Pasture’. I have based a lot of my justification of grazing, in conversation, on grasslands’ ability to seuqester carbon. Well, that’s true- it does, but then it is released at different times- dry periods, overly mature grasses, overgrazing etc-. It is not so much a carbon sink as a carbon marketplace. This is what 30 years of study by many people has shown. This is due to an equilibrium that gets established in mature grasslands- a new seeding would be a different story , of course. The point I am making is that nothing is as simple as I would like it to be. It was a bit of a disappointment to read this article after all my clever speeches.

 

[Jungle Bill]

What 30 Years of Study Tell Us About Grazing and Carbon Sequestration
By Kathy Voth and Rachel Gilker / November 13, 2017 / 16 Comments
Has anyone read this series in ‘On Pasture’. I have based a lot of my justification of grazing, in conversation, on grasslands’ ability to seuqester carbon. Well, that’s true- it does, but then it is released at different times- dry periods, overly mature grasses, overgrazing etc-. It is not so much a carbon sink as a carbon marketplace. This is what 30 years of study by many people has shown. This is due to an equilibrium that gets established in mature grasslands- a new seeding would be a different story , of course. The point I am making is that nothing is as simple as I would like it to be. It was a bit of a disappointment to read this article after all my clever speeches.

I followed the link to the article and couldn’t find much but was able to read the comments.
It looks like they are talking about carbon content of the soil which will tend to plateau somewhere below 10% and is easy to measure. What is not so easy to measure is the volume or depth of carbon containing soil and the profile of carbon content throughout that soil.
Common sense and a fair understanding of the carbon cycle along with having seen the depth of topsoil in, for instance, unploughed prairie soils makes me think as land is grazed regeneratively and the plant population diversifies to include deeper rooting plants that the depth of carbon containing soil would increase, both deeper down into the soil profile and above the original surface level as decomposing plants are processed by soil life into new soil.
In short the %age of carbon in the soil may plateau but the amount of soil will continue to increase with good management.