"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Depends on the weed.

Not all weeds are equal.

I prefer to see my gorse, dead.

It's collapsing back into the ground, now, but it was good shelter when it was there

 

[Karliboy]

How often will you move them on on 1/4 acre.

Twice a day.

 

[Karliboy]

Grounds a little damp and due to being deep inside a wooded area it never really dries out down there unless there’s a drought as such. that’s the only problem around here with to many trees and steep land you can soon create bare soil without trying and feet holes that puddle up and don’t dry out for weeks on end.
I really could have done with eating this a week or so ago but was far to wet then but needs must right now as the pasture needs a small rest while there is a little heat and sun available

I can’t decide if this is worse to look at or @onesiedale mess last week.
My turf is upside down now in places from cows feet
(I will resist from rolling it back flat though)

To be fair this field doesn’t really see machinery at all. Only had lime spreader last year and a small 360 digger for a drain repair. Other than that I can’t think the last time
Getting plenty of trample.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Depends on the weed.

Not all weeds are equal.

True
We have some fairly "evil" weeds mainly South American or African in origin ( a lot of hay was imported to Australia during a major dry period in the late 1890's. Bio security wasn't quite what it is now )
Plants that are either highly toxic ( apparently 1 datura seed will kill a horse ) or pose physical injury to livestock, such as devils claw, which can get caught around the feet of sheep & tear all the skin off, or even get caught around the necks of lambs & kill them
No, not all weeds are equal
Some are beneficial, some are indicators, some are competitors & some are just downright dangerous . . .
Off the top of my head, ALL the nasty ones are imports, either by accident or design
Castor Oil ( datura )
Bathurst Burr
Devils Claw
Harrisa Cactus
Tiger Pear
Mother of Millions
African Boxthorn ( imported to make hedges for fûcks sake )
Green Cestrum
the list is endless

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Giving the legs a stretch

 

[Henarar]

View attachment 811330
Giving the legs a stretch

Do you take them for a walk every day

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you take them for a walk every day

It's about every 3 days at the moment.
They really love to go for a hoon, certainly not difficult to get them shifted. Open the gate, get a headstart on them and give a yell - they don't do much until I holler.

I've been working on walking through them without sound and just getting them used to "me" rather than me=move, so I can do stuff without them roaming and ploughing the show. It's very soft, even though it looks dry in the picture it really isn't dry anymore.
Tipped out 33mm this morning, 25 the other morning, 61mm another morning so we're slowly getting our soils topped up. Even water meandering down the creeks again, ponds are full again, happy days

 

[Henarar]

Cows are in here now but not enough of them really
They are eating the part that was cut by about the same amount as the uncut part but the uncut bit was taller to start with

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is where they were on the 61mm night, made a bit of mess but it soon comes right after the leaves get a wash. Quite a good way to conserve a little feed; get it muddied quickly, and the bottom half is fairly safe.
Or it gets pushed in/over/down, the big thing is that it isn't removed.

It's not the most wonderful looking forage, but it isn't going to get better for a while.
Soil has cooled dramatically after snow above us over the weekend, so I'm going to complete a grazing round with these lambs, then they can go home.
I'll get a bit of hay for the cattle, quite keen to roll a bit out on some of the poorer patches that are litter-starved

 

[Karliboy]

I’m starting to feel a little better now about my soft muddy field now i have seen some muddy pictures of others.
Looking at @Henarar pic I feel I should have been in this 2/3 weeks ago now but on the other hand I feel henarar maybe is a little early?
Each to there own though.
Great pics and info coming through guys keep it up.

@Farmer Roy has your seed struck at home ?
I hope so.
Have you had anymore rain since seeding.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I notice that most of the cowpats are getting moulds and fungi on them, but the birds aren't hooking them apart anymore.

I also haven't noticed any grass-grub patches yet, which is promising usually you can see any tell-tale signs by their pale hue about this time of year; by that time the roots are eaten by the grubs.

Hoping that the heavy stocking late summer has deterred them.
Along with all those herons they've now migrated, as there's a lot of new surface-water about.

 

[Henarar]

I’m starting to feel a little better now about my soft muddy field now i have seen some muddy pictures of others.
Looking at @Henarar pic I feel I should have been in this 2/3 weeks ago now but on the other hand I feel henarar maybe is a little early?
Each to there own though.
Great pics and info coming through guys keep it up.

@Farmer Roy has your seed struck at home ?
I hope so.
Have you had anymore rain since seeding.

don't go by what I do that will lead to certain doom
I think I cut to many acres TBO which has meant coming back on the silage land to quick before it has recovered well enough
been knocking this around in me head and the problem is we need lots of silage, as a rule we use 100 bales a month up or down a bit but the thing is the housed period can be from less than 5 months to 7 months add on a few for dry summer use and we need a fair bit
I think we need to either carry less cattle and more sheep or try to carry more surplus fodder and not be so quick to sell which I have done in the past
Pete may say to destock then restock but I am not sure that is so easy in this country re TB and other things with cattle you don't want to be bringing more on when you have a cow herd of your own

 

[Kiwi Pete]

don't go by what I do that will lead to certain doom
I think I cut to many acres TBO which has meant coming back on the silage land to quick before it has recovered well enough
been knocking this around in me head and the problem is we need lots of silage, as a rule we use 100 bales a month up or down a bit but the thing is the housed period can be from less than 5 months to 7 months add on a few for dry summer use and we need a fair bit
I think we need to either carry less cattle and more sheep or try to carry more surplus fodder and not be so quick to sell which I have done in the past
Pete may say to destock then restock but I am not sure that is so easy in this country re TB and other things with cattle you don't want to be bringing more on when you have a cow herd of your own

How much of your area do you cut?
And, what's your stocking rate, approx.?

Can be various ways to accomplish a de- and re- stocking, or at least have "stretchy numbers".

I think you're fairly well set, as always there are many many different ways to tweak things.
How much of it actually needs done, is another matter entirely, very few things in the world of beef cattle need to be high-tech

 

[Karliboy]

I don’t think the destock restock method would work that well in uk due to many things as you say. Unlike Pete who makes the call and There gone more or less, over here farmers tend to rent for so long and they stay there until the end of contract, or they do in my area.
And beef price volatility is not good either.
Markets saying finished cattle around here are£140 per head back on last year so you could soon hurt your finances and that’s without a drought flooding the market.

I think if you can grow it/buy it cheap enough your best having a surplus of bales/clamp or whatever to carry you through the hard times in the uk.

 

[Henarar]

How much of your area do you cut?
And, what's your stocking rate, approx.?

Can be various ways to accomplish a de- and re- stocking, or at least have "stretchy numbers".

I think you're fairly well set, as always there are many many different ways to tweak things.
How much of it actually needs done, is another matter entirely, very few things in the world of beef cattle need to be high-tech

goodness
there is about 110 acres around the farm that the cattle can go on most of it we can do what we like with but about 10% is keep land and we are a bit more restricted as to what the owner wants
I say 110 but I suspect its only 100 after all the hedges diches and streams woody bits are taken out
this year I cut about 45 acres of this so around half
we also have 20 acres away land that gets cut twice and about 30 acres that gets cut once for hay but this doesn't yield very high for various reasons outside my control
usually got between 80 and 100 head of cattle depending on the time of year, about 55/60 of these will be cows bulls and bigger heifers and the rest calves anywhere up to 10 months
the 50 to 80 sheep have there own keep for the summer and come back on here in the winter we also have keep sheep in the winter maybe 3 or 4 hundred mainly lambs but I like them gone before mid January so once round from mid October and away they go
I like it all to have no stock on between mid Jan and April, even sheep can mess up spring growth here through capping if its wet/cold

 

[Henarar]

I don’t think the destock restock method would work that well in uk due to many things as you say. Unlike Pete who makes the call and There gone more or less, over here farmers tend to rent for so long and they stay there until the end of contract, or they do in my area.
And beef price volatility is not good either.
Markets saying finished cattle around here are£140 per head back on last year so you could soon hurt your finances and that’s without a drought flooding the market.

I think if you can grow it/buy it cheap enough your best having a surplus of bales/clamp or whatever to carry you through the hard times in the uk.

I would say that our store price is a bit more than £140/head back on two years ago for anything bar the very best, not sold any since feb and not looking forward to it
don't like to buy in fodder as when we are short everyone else is and its dear, would rather try to keep more surplus so dry summers or long winters don't make much odds in that regard,

 

[Blaithin]

True
We have some fairly "evil" weeds mainly South American or African in origin ( a lot of hay was imported to Australia during a major dry period in the late 1890's. Bio security wasn't quite what it is now )
Plants that are either highly toxic ( apparently 1 datura seed will kill a horse ) or pose physical injury to livestock, such as devils claw, which can get caught around the feet of sheep & tear all the skin off, or even get caught around the necks of lambs & kill them
No, not all weeds are equal
Some are beneficial, some are indicators, some are competitors & some are just downright dangerous . . .
Off the top of my head, ALL the nasty ones are imports, either by accident or design
Castor Oil ( datura )
Bathurst Burr
Devils Claw
Harrisa Cactus
Tiger Pear
Mother of Millions
African Boxthorn ( imported to make hedges for fûcks sake )
Green Cestrum
the list is endless

We’ve got some plants that are highly poisonous and so that makes them a weed, but they are native. Like Western Water Hemlock and even Tall Delphinium.

They aren’t classed the same as invasive plants like common Tansy.

I find it hard to believe that in Australia, a place where everything wants to kill you, the plants don’t. Isn’t eucalypts poisonous and that’s why only a few animals eat it? And I thought Tea Tree wasn’t great either, although that could just be the oil, not the whole bush.

There was also a terrible vine up on the Tablelands where I was they called a Wait a While because if you got stuck in it you were there a while. It’d pull your skin right off. No clue if it was native though.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

goodness
there is about 110 acres around the farm that the cattle can go on most of it we can do what we like with but about 10% is keep land and we are a bit more restricted as to what the owner wants
I say 110 but I suspect its only 100 after all the hedges diches and streams woody bits are taken out
this year I cut about 45 acres of this so around half
we also have 20 acres away land that gets cut twice and about 30 acres that gets cut once for hay but this doesn't yield very high for various reasons outside my control
usually got between 80 and 100 head of cattle depending on the time of year, about 55/60 of these will be cows bulls and bigger heifers and the rest calves anywhere up to 10 months
the 50 to 80 sheep have there own keep for the summer and come back on here in the winter we also have keep sheep in the winter maybe 3 or 4 hundred mainly lambs but I like them gone before mid January so once round from mid October and away they go
I like it all to have no stock on between mid Jan and April, even sheep can mess up spring growth here through capping if its wet/cold

Bit of a mental challenge
At least you know how many stock you have, which is surprisingly uncommon down here!

So, in time, do you think it's a feasible plan to keep more surplus on the ground, ie keep your covers higher through the early season? Different context here as I use contractors for the supplement bit, but I'm swinging towards closing up any area for silage much later on, rather than in the spring when they have a big rush on.

I think I've panicked too much, so far, that the moment it "gets away" I react but there's no shortage of a decent weather window.

 

[Fenwick]

Hi there chaps! Still adoring this thread.

So I managed to catch up. Then spring happened....
Anyway I am catching up slowly.

We've been busy over here. Got the cattle into just two groups 1 of 65 cows, their calves a few steers and we even took the crunch and put the two bulls together!
The 2nd group are the old cows being fattened for sale, the heifers destined for sale and the heifers destined to replace the cows.

We are now moving every two to three days (2 years ago it was once every two weeks, last year once a week).

So far we are really happy with the result.

Currently around 100 000kgs/Ha in some pretty deep grass.

The animals are all doing well.

However right now we are swimming in grass. Like there is really loads of it. I Don't know if its weather or the change in management technique. Interested to see how things will be later in the summer.

We need to get on with investing in fencing and water. We've been messing around with a hodgepodge of old gear while trying this hollistic malarky. But now we are happy with the results we have bitten the bullet and pretty much decided on going kiwitech throughout.

How do those of you who use the kiwitech 100l troughs get on with them? I'm worried about the bulls pushing them around (and out of the field). They do that with 600l ones, so we use 1000L troughs which is a pain in the a*se. My partner doesn't think 100L is sufficient. - Any opinions?

Anyone got any photos of how they adapt a tractor to pass over kiwitech fencing?

I'll try to catch up on all your posts eventually!

 

[Fenwick]

I am soooo darn excited for the release of this book... going to jump on the crowdfunding and get an early copy

I think they are doing some pretty cool stuff over there.

But I have a hard time accepting that they publish a book called regenerative agriculture when they are buying in all their feed and fertility!
On that principle the industrial pig unit up the road from my house could claim to be regenerative too.