"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

could that be fair bit of creeping fescue ? or maybe what we call 'water grass' in that ? they don't like eating it very, very tight unlike ryegrasses etc and its a creeping mass that holds together so forms a'raft'

I think we have that stuff too - Glyceria fluitans, aka 'floating sweet grass' in our creeks, as you say it floats like a raft.
The cattle love to guts it, never really noticed lambs on it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Glyceria fluitans https://g.co/kgs/ZvejZ6

 

[Bury the Trash]

New method?
Is that the one where we leave them too long to aid "utilisation" - I don't get it either.
Longer recovery for the grass is ideal, for the sheep maybe not so much; but it does help a ton if the grass is ready for teeth about the same time as the soil is ready for feet.

I think that's where "plate-metering" instead of actual observation is a backward step - IYSWIM - because it tends to focus too much enough on the grass and this means less focus on the whole.
I hope that makes sense

We're about to cheat a little, my neighbour is really wanting to stop farming (we bought this bit off him, still has 8ac next to us with 2 cows on it) and wondered if we want to graze it out with our decent mob.
So this then poses the issue, do we just rip into his for a week and then carry on with our planned recovery times (20-24 days) or what?
Destocking on the peak growing month isn't (wasn't) ever in the plan

no , left too long so they poach it as opposed to not poach it , simply that . you know very well what I mean
why spoil the structure of that topsoil if it can be avoided ?

 

[Samcowman]

New method?
Is that the one where we leave them too long to aid "utilisation" - I don't get it either.
Longer recovery for the grass is ideal, for the sheep maybe not so much; but it does help a ton if the grass is ready for teeth about the same time as the soil is ready for feet.

I think that's where "plate-metering" instead of actual observation is a backward step - IYSWIM - because it tends to focus too much enough on the grass and this means less focus on the whole.
I hope that makes sense

We're about to cheat a little, my neighbour is really wanting to stop farming (we bought this bit off him, still has 8ac next to us with 2 cows on it) and wondered if we want to graze it out with our decent mob.
So this then poses the issue, do we just rip into his for a week and then carry on with our planned recovery times (20-24 days) or what?
Destocking on the peak growing month isn't (wasn't) ever in the plan

Write your options down with the main positives and negatives for each. Even give the kids a chance to give theirs.
I’m sure the right option will become apparent.
Could it be a chance to build extra cover over the rest of the ranch?
Would you use it in your whole rotation from now on or just the once?
If it’s going to be in your rotation could it be an option to let your best paddock in terms of diversity go to seed then make hay out of it and have some cheap reseeding?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

no , left too long so they poach it as opposed to not poach it , simply that . you know very well what I mean
why spoil the structure of that topsoil if it can be avoided ?

extra time paddling in mud is not utilising any thing well, except buying a bit of extra time grazing days wise .

I use muddying as a conservation tool, hence the highish stock density, they knock it down and dirty it before they can eat it off.
They have 4 feet, 1 mouth for this very reason, I suspect? So they waste more

 

[Bury the Trash]

no , left too long so they poach it as opposed to not poach it , simply that . you know very well what I mean
why spoil the structure of that topsoil if it can be avoided ?

I was going to say extra grazing days gained, but that would be by moving quicker as it would come back quicker ......than it would from muddy , ime anyway.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Write your options down with the main positives and negatives for each. Even give the kids a chance to give theirs.
I’m sure the right option will become apparent.
Could it be a chance to build extra cover over the rest of the ranch?
Would you use it in your whole rotation from now on or just the once?
If it’s going to be in your rotation could it be an option to let your best paddock in terms of diversity go to seed then make hay out of it and have some cheap reseeding?

I'm thinking that, defer 15 acres here (low cover) and replace it with 8 acres of taller grass next door.
I'm not too sure if he meant to just smash it now, or put it in the rotation - I am concerned we are going to run out of animals soon as the hoggs will go home in a month, and the bulls will go to McD's

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I was going to say extra grazing days gained, but that would be by moving quicker as it would come back quicker ......than it would from muddy , ime anyway.

Hard to say without seeing it, here it's often a case of a paddock I think I've slaughtered standing up after the next rain and looking like I topped it, even as buggery and 4 inches tall already.
Probably what most people would describe as "he left a bit too much behind", but in fact they used it to spread their weight out and protect the soil from abuse.

 

[hendrebc]

could that be fair bit of creeping fescue ? or maybe what we call 'water grass' in that ? they don't like eating it very, very tight unlike ryegrasses etc and its a creeping mass that holds together so forms a'raft'

Yes it's a shitty reseed field about 6, years old that dad mauled in when I wasn't home one day. It's not done well since and it's now a field full of Yorkshire fog and crappy fescues. They are doing a tidier job on anything more ryegrassey even the old permanent pastures but trying to leave similar length grass behind and it comes back like silage aftermath.

Write your options down with the main positives and negatives for each. Even give the kids a chance to give theirs.
I’m sure the right option will become apparent.
Could it be a chance to build extra cover over the rest of the ranch?
Would you use it in your whole rotation from now on or just the once?
If it’s going to be in your rotation could it be an option to let your best paddock in terms of diversity go to seed then make hay out of it and have some cheap reseeding?

I'm thinking that, defer 15 acres here (low cover) and replace it with 8 acres of taller grass next door.
I'm not too sure if he meant to just smash it now, or put it in the rotation - I am concerned we are going to run out of animals soon as the hoggs will go home in a month, and the bulls will go to McD's

I was going to say take it as a chance to make some hay but Sam best me to it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes it's a shitty reseed field about 6, years old that dad mauled in when I wasn't home one day. It's not done well since and it's now a field full of Yorkshire fog and crappy fescues. They are doing a tidier job on anything more ryegrassey even the old permanent pastures but trying to leave similar length grass behind and it comes back like silage aftermath.


I was going to say take it as a chance to make some hay but Sam best me to it.

I would put it in my pit, but it's such a labyrinth with little ten-foot gateways! So it's probably better grazed TBH, and I'll get silage from somewhere else.
Just had a "first" on farm, we were up checking the heifers

and Sarah spotted this beauty:

Some massive clover leaflets in there, but I've never seen a 5-leaf one in my life, til just now

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The cattle love to guts it, never really noticed lambs on it.

#Benefitsofdiversity

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Glyceria fluitans https://g.co/kgs/ZvejZ6

Known as "reed sweetgrass" in UK conservation circles and a right pain for rapidly clogging slow flowing watercourses.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I like mine clogged

 

[Farmer Roy]

Known as "reed sweetgrass" in UK conservation circles and a right pain for rapidly clogging slow flowing watercourses.

you need to dredge & straighten them

that’ll get the water moving . . .

 

[ShooTa]

nice varnish.. is that regenerative deep blue?

your grass is looking similar to mine here atm @hendrebc - im starting to see the old moss showing through in some places due to this damp weather.. so where the moss is im trying to keep them on a day longer to get it mashed in now.

 

[hendrebc]

I would put it in my pit, but it's such a labyrinth with little ten-foot gateways! So it's probably better grazed TBH, and I'll get silage from somewhere else.
Just had a "first" on farm, we were up checking the heifersView attachment 843412and Sarah spotted this beauty:View attachment 843413View attachment 843414
Some massive clover leaflets in there, but I've never seen a 5-leaf one in my life, til just now

I was thinking hay because you would get the seed from it to chuck on the ground while feeding them. And it might save you opening the pit if you only wanted to slow the round down a little bit at some point or something. Hay is always useful for feeding if not for the seed much better than silage bales.
Never seen clover leaves that big! Have seen a 5 leaf clover though. We have a tiny strip of grass by the farmhouse between the path and the road. It's only about 18" wide maybe 12 foot long and I don't know why but it always gave 4 leaf clovers and have had at least one 5 leaf one off it over the years. It would be nothing to get 3-4 clovers with 4 leaves on it at one time. Don't see as many now though dad doesn't mow the grass as often with his bad hip and the clover must not like the longer grass. Can't say that strip of grass has ever bought me any luck though

 

[Fenwick]

We planted this mix at the exit from the parlour. Just about a 1½ acre strip that ran from the parlour to the farm entrance. It certainly proved to be a cracking talking point with the locals ?

I think the importance of this cannot be overstated. In a time when farmers are under pressure because of spraying or carbon emissions etc and the image of a farmer seems so negative. Being able to engage with the public in a positive way by sowing a few flowers seems so important.

As a general rule they dont like fertile soil and they dont like being eaten

So heres the important bit. How do we get the wildflowers intergrated into a productive system. Where the soil is fertile they do get eaten (or trampled). Is it really fertile soil they dislike, or is it something linked to our idea of fertile soils?

I know many areas in the mountains with fertile soil that have plenty of wildflowers, but are free of spray residues, the plough and artificial fert, and they are grazed and cut pretty intensively.

 

[Bury the Trash]

wildflowers dont like competition..
They dont help me pay the bills either but if i can find even a modest area that they can be correctly manged in, then i will provide it .

 

[Bury the Trash]

@Kiwi Pete pic

just moved a flock of 180 off here, its 10 acres and they have been there for exactly 3 wks. part of the field is drier ground than this admitted ly but most of it is 8inches of loam over clay,and not that far from the river.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Since 21st of sept its rained every day here except a couple, of drizzly ones.

it is a mix containing mainly Barelight tall fescue and timothy cocksfoot as well amoungst others

it was only sown 14 months ago ,
and this was it exactly a yr ago...

powerharrowed and seed broad cast . note no drills with gaps and all ground covered.