"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Blaithin]

@Karliboy maybe we should just start by visiting each other and sharing our dilemmas
Your more than welcome to come down here. Just don't tell me to fill it with trees!

You can have some of my trees. I need to hide them from Kidd.

 

[Henarar]

Having just read Savoury’s book there is a get out clause. He does point out that in high humidity temperate climes that the model may not work. Indeed none of the working models alluded to I read about were in a UK type environment.
So, take heart and do what works for you in the conditions you have. I have no suitable winter grazing areas here on pennine boulder clay derived soils, so all mine are tucked up inside until May. The mower and baler were the ‘herd’ and the muck spreader will complete the herd cycle (albeit a bit slower temporarily speaking) when it finally stops feckin raining or a decent freeze occurs.
Horses for courses..

It does seem to be those that have to worry more about dry than wet

 

[Karliboy]

cheers for the offer @onesiedale may take you up on that one day. ? and your welcome here anytime to, just bring your wellies and waterproofs.

 

[Treg]

cheers for the offer @onesiedale may take you up on that one day. ? and your welcome here anytime to, just bring your wellies and waterproofs.

You two have just solved your own problem, learn from each other & push each other forward

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

i was thinking about this the other day unfortunately there is very few/ nobody i know off doing anything like this in my local area apart from @Doc and maybe texel ben.

i would really like someone with some experience in regen ag top pop around to see my lot and pass comment as to what they would do with it one day and hopefully not say fill it full off trees

@Karliboy maybe we should just start by visiting each other and sharing our dilemmas
Your more than welcome to come down here. Just don't tell me to fill it with trees!

You two have just solved your own problem, learn from each other & push each other forward

Sounds like the start of a North Midlands regenerative grazing discussion group.......

 

[Samcowman]

Sounds like the start of a North Midlands regenerative grazing discussion group.......

Trouble is finding the people around you who are doing it. There are bound to be a few about.
Maybe a chance for a noticeboard thing at Groundswell for starters? So people attending can volunteer themselves. @martian.

 

[bitwrx]

You two have just solved your own problem, learn from each other & push each other forward

Just get it done!
Verbalising your thoughts is by far the most effective way of spotting any blind spots or implicit assumptions that may not be true. Only when you explain something do you come to understand it.

Writing on here is ok, but it's a bit slow. Can't beat the back and forth that comes from an enquiring mind trying to figure out why you're doing what you do (and why you aren't doing it a different way).

 

[Samcowman]

Just get it done!
Verbalising your thoughts is by far the most effective way of spotting any blind spots or implicit assumptions that may not be true. Only when you explain something do you come to understand it.

Writing on here is ok, but it's a bit slow. Can't beat the back and forth that comes from an enquiring mind trying to figure out why you're doing what you do (and why you aren't doing it a different way).

I’ll show you my grazing plan if you show me yours ?

 

[Blaithin]

Go walk each other's farms. It's amazing what a fresh set of eyes will see. You get used to seeing the same thing every day and you don't even think about how it can be changed or improved.

 

[JohnGalway]

Having just read Savoury’s book there is a get out clause. He does point out that in high humidity temperate climes that the model may not work. Indeed none of the working models alluded to I read about were in a UK type environment.
So, take heart and do what works for you in the conditions you have. I have no suitable winter grazing areas here on pennine boulder clay derived soils, so all mine are tucked up inside until May. The mower and baler were the ‘herd’ and the muck spreader will complete the herd cycle (albeit a bit slower temporarily speaking) when it finally stops feckin raining or a decent freeze occurs.
Horses for courses..

The thought that comes to my mind is holism(?) or holistic management is just that, it's about the management. Savory, I believe, has said before that it's not a grazing system. So housing, or destocking, or running someone elses stock then sending them back home would all enter the decision making process of what's right or wrong at that time.

Before I did the fundamentals course I was a bit annoyed, questioning why it was needed as really all I wanted then was the grazing and financials. That was of course to miss the point. The fundamentals brings one through the decision making process, which is the engine that drives everything.

 

[Blaithin]

Good article, Steve is a quiet heavyweight

He’s not that quiet though ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It does seem to be those that have to worry more about dry than wet

" plan for what you want, manage what you have "

Or something to that effect

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The thought that comes to my mind is holism(?) or holistic management is just that, it's about the management. Savory, I believe, has said before that it's not a grazing system. So housing, or destocking, or running someone elses stock then sending them back home would all enter the decision making process of what's right or wrong at that time.

Before I did the fundamentals course I was a bit annoyed, questioning why it was needed as really all I wanted then was the grazing and financials. That was of course to miss the point. The fundamentals brings one through the decision making process, which is the engine that drives everything.

Bloody good post, mate, it sounds like you got your money's worth!

I think that's really cutting to the chase, TBH many really just want to grow more grass and make more money, but as you suggest: they won't until they can grasp "the whole" and just how complex that is.

In my context that has been learning to see 'the farm as an ecosystem' rather than 'a factory that turns sunshine into coins' - because I am a grazier it's easy to forget other things and get tunnel-vision, because you don't "see" how birds and spiders are helping you make money from sheep and cattle

The more entrenched you get in "we need to grow more grass" the less likely you are to ever get it.
I often see farmers that have gone far, far past the point of optimum stocking rates/ CAPEX/ inputs to the point they're losing money and losing biodiversity - it's really difficult to convey that they simply will get poorer the more they spend/run/do

Then we have our aussie mates, who are NOT FARMING in an attempt to preserve their asset, their overdraft, and preparing their business for when rain arrives - easy to see that they "get the bigger picture", so as discussed above HM is a much more apparent distinction in a brittle environment than a cushy one.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Can't exactly remember when we got our last rain, but there's still abundant water on our landscape.
I think it must have been 3 weeks or so, but I'm really guessing.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Water from the creek isn't half sweet, either

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Regenerative agriculture is an uncommon journey

Farmers find personal challenges and rewards in regenerative agriculture

www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au

 

[Jungle Bill]

Having just read Savoury’s book there is a get out clause. He does point out that in high humidity temperate climes that the model may not work. Indeed none of the working models alluded to I read about were in a UK type environment.
So, take heart and do what works for you in the conditions you have. I have no suitable winter grazing areas here on pennine boulder clay derived soils, so all mine are tucked up inside until May. The mower and baler were the ‘herd’ and the muck spreader will complete the herd cycle (albeit a bit slower temporarily speaking) when it finally stops feckin raining or a decent freeze occurs.
Horses for courses..

I think in a UK situation the best we can hope for is to extend the grazing season at both ends of winter as the grass sward firms up and is able to recover from a day’s intensive grazing before it is needed again. Shortening the time inside by a couple of months this way would make a big difference on feed and bedding costs.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I like that "get out clause" - it's such a challenging statement, wrapped in subtlety, wry

'On the off-chance you get more rainfall than Zimbabwe, feel free to keep more stock than your landscape can carry, and I don't mind at all"

- It's very liberating ranching in a very tame environment, eg I don't have elephant tangling up my fences nor hyena driving the lambs into them to assist capture.
- I don't need to kraal them at night to keep the cats off them... these bitey, jumpy things would put a new spin on "variable costs" associated with keeping livestock TBH

 

[JohnGalway]

So the conference I kept blathering on about for a while, Biofarm2019, the recorded sessions will be available from this evening. For graziers I'd suggest Dr Christine Jones followed by Rob Havard and Russ Carrington. But, pretty much all the presentations have a lot of value for any curious sort.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205082387916447744

 

[Doc]

I will clarify that my post was referring to outwintering cattle as I think the OP was.
I don’t have any sheep atm but do currently have a neighbours gimmer swale lambs (35kg max) paddling about. And on purpose this time ?.
I have asked him to limit the numbers though (2/ac) and lift them before March. I guess I am destocking/restocking of sorts by removing cattle when it needs (IMO) and replacing them with lighter beasties at lighter stocking rate, which will also go to enable 2 months recovery before cattle go out. I might even broadcast spread a bit of herbal ley seed out before the gimmers depart (if its warm enough) so they can tread it in.
Would this be a waste of time/seed?