"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[holwellcourtfarm]

It's one of the reasons I'll plant so much willow on farm, we get a ton of rain and I've always had a voice in the back of mind urging caution re future bale success. So should I need to house, I'll be able to chip willow for bedding and keep costs down as I'd be buying the hay anyway.

Another option that occurs to me is to plant 1/3 of the farm with a very diverse crop mix a'la Pete, leave it all summer to grow then use is as a sacrificial area for winter treading in all the biomass.....

 

[JohnGalway]

Another option that occurs to me is to plant 1/3 of the farm with a very diverse crop mix a'la Pete, leave it all summer to grow then use is as a sacrificial area for winter treading in all the biomass.....

Wouldn't be an option for me due to land type, I know of a man fined €2k by dept for sacrifice area as well.

 

[Sharpy]

Another option that occurs to me is to plant 1/3 of the farm with a very diverse crop mix a'la Pete, leave it all summer to grow then use is as a sacrificial area for winter treading in all the biomass.....

As above you need a different mindset when you are in a rain surplus area, you are used to maybe 450mm of rain? Here its more like 1800, @JohnGalway probably a bit more.

 

[JohnGalway]

As above you need a different mindset when you are in a rain surplus area, you are used to maybe 450mm of rain? Here its more like 1800, @JohnGalway probably a bit more.

15/1600mm or thereabouts I think.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Wouldn't be an option for me due to land type, I know of a man fined €2k by dept for sacrifice area as well.

As above you need a different mindset when you are in a rain surplus area, you are used to maybe 450mm of rain? Here its more like 1800, @JohnGalway probably a bit more.

I know what you mean (our average is 640mm if average means anything any more) but rules like those are going to have to become more flexible IMHO. It's like the fixed calendar dates for no spread periods which ignore weather variations between years.

If the growth is 4 feet high and the trampling is managed then it should NOT be against the rules.

 

[Sharpy]

I know what you mean (our average is 640mm if average means anything any more) but rules like those are going to have to become more flexible IMHO. It's like the fixed calendar dates for no spread periods which ignore weather variations between years.

If the growth is 4 feet high and the trampling is managed then it should NOT be against the rules.

Outwintering is not against the rules here, but sepa will cause you serious grief if you cause a pollution incident. The only guys doing it round here are either on sand and feeding silage anyway, or deferred grazing on a hard hill. Store lambs are making a mark at the moment on a neighbours, maybe 80 on 250 acres? Not discouning the plant a crop then graze it off idea to extend grazing, but almost certainly you will need to plough it anyway to rectify the drainage issues caused by grazing in a month of an inch of rain every other day onto already sodden ground.

 

[Henarar]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=763250760681344

Simple, to the point

 

[Rob Garrett]

Think like nature to give the seed the edge over grass:

• Graze it hard twice about a week apart then sow
• Poach the surface in a wet spell then get the seed on quick
• a pass with a power harrow to rip the sward a bit then sow

Anything to hold the grass back a bit really. Trial and error.

Brings to mind a quote from my current reading matter which quotes the founder of IBM as having said "if you want to increase your successes then double your failures" ie: be more willing to fail.

Like the poach then power harrow idea, would make a good seedbed for spring oats to give a grass break ish!, then outwinter/bale graze sheep. Grass regrowth and no ploughing would make it a bit firmer under foot. Then poach/power harrow again in spring and sow herbal ley (plenty of long tap rooted herbs to counter any compaction) under an pea/barley nurse crop. Keeps all the good stuff on the surface and has plenty of plant diversity.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Like the poach then power harrow idea, would make a good seedbed for spring oats to give a grass break ish!, then outwinter/bale graze sheep. Grass regrowth and no ploughing would make it a bit firmer under foot. Then poach/power harrow again in spring and sow herbal ley (plenty of long tap rooted herbs to counter any compaction) under an pea/barley nurse crop. Keeps all the good stuff on the surface and has plenty of plant diversity.

With a light power harrow pass 90% of the grass survives but feels like it's done 10 rounds with a heavyweight so gives other things a chance IMHO.

As for ploughs I think @martian has the best idea...

 

[Rob Garrett]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=763250760681344

Simple, to the point

Brilliant. How can those muppet "cow farts will destroy the planet" so called scientist argue with that!

 

[ShooTa]

this is what im going through atm - rested 340 days - it settled alot during the autumn as it was standing quite well before that - this field is usually very mossy so hopeing the extra trampling does for it.

edit - last pick is the residual after the 500 hd per acre for 24 hrs./.....
ive recently put out molasses and i hope to bring bales of hayledge up in the next few days (2 wheel d tractor up a 35 deg muddy slope with a bale on..) and start dropping them behind so when they reach the end of the field i can then unrole bales as they make their way back.

 

[Henarar]

Brilliant. How can those muppet "cow farts will destroy the planet" so called scientist argue with that!

they will but you don't need to be a scientist to know its right

 

[Kiwi Pete]

As above you need a different mindset when you are in a rain surplus area, you are used to maybe 450mm of rain? Here its more like 1800, @JohnGalway probably a bit more.

You definitely need more contingency.
We moved from about 2200mm (1500mm in 15 weeks, over the cow's dry period) to here, makes outwintering dairy cows a bit of a challenge, that's why our "big plan" here revolves around a tractor-free winter system
Cows can make a bit of a bog so the strategy was really crucial, eg always feed them into the prevailing weather, down the hills, and towards the gateways - but even a light tractor makes a mess IME

We used to cut tracks with a little topper (through the kale) and lift the bales (cut the bum out of the plastic, and the bottom bit of net) once weekly and that was challenging enough at times..... BUT because it went summer dry all the bales could be placed in the dry, post-drilling.

We had 2 seasons, wet and dry

The second-year paddocks were 50% wetter compared to the fresh-out-of-pasture, bale spray and drill paddock, anything worked up was a waste of time for anything other than heifers or calves because the structure was kaput

I made daily cells of either 100x8 metres or 60x13 metres (800m2) and the squarer ones worked better, but you had to roll the trough more.

 

[Sharpy]

You definitely need more contingency.
We moved from about 2200mm (1500mm in 15 weeks, over the cow's dry period) to here, makes outwintering dairy cows a bit of a challenge, that's why our "big plan" here revolves around a tractor-free winter system
Cows can make a bit of a bog so the strategy was really crucial, eg always feed them into the prevailing weather, down the hills, and towards the gateways - but even a light tractor makes a mess IME

We used to cut tracks with a little topper (through the kale) and lift the bales (cut the bum out of the plastic, and the bottom bit of net) once weekly and that was challenging enough at times..... BUT because it went summer dry all the bales could be placed in the dry, post-drilling.

We had 2 seasons, wet and dry

The second-year paddocks were 50% wetter compared to the fresh-out-of-pasture, bale spray and drill paddock, anything worked up was a waste of time for anything other than heifers or calves because the structure was kaput

I made daily cells of either 100x8 metres or 60x13 metres (800m2) and the squarer ones worked better, but you had to roll the trough more.

So how would you cope with 1 season cold and wet followed by 1 season warmer and wet on heavy ground with the clay average 8 inch down Unusually May and June were dry here in 19, think we averaged 23 wet days per month after that. Not saying it cannot be done, but the 2.6t mini digger is tracking at the moment.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So how would you cope with 1 season cold and wet followed by 1 season warmer and wet on heavy ground with the clay average 8 inch down Unusually May and June were dry here in 19, think we averaged 23 wet days per month after that. Not saying it cannot be done, but the 2.6t mini digger is tracking at the moment.

We'd have just sent more away, in that context (dairy) either as culls, keep more replacements, or graze some off.
It was "totally self contained" due to the ideologies of the owners, it wouldn't have been my choice but what can you do?
Was very difficult to put weight on the cows, easy to maintain them but very hard on the animals - IMO it would have been far better to grass more down and send 400 cows away, feed the other 350 and youngstock/bulls at home.

More diverse crops and no bales would have transformed his farming operation but he was scared to look outside what he knew would work.
I kinda proved my point to him (about the diversity of his crops) when we ran out of crop (low yields due to dry summer) and just grazed the cows on old pastures on 3 moves a day

 

[Kiwi Pete]

To be honest, I wouldn't have even converted that place to dairy in the first place, Mr Sharp

If it were me, knowing what I now know it would have made a cracking beef finishing property if sheep had done their dash, I think that was the main driver, no more sheepwork and of course the promised $$$$$ of dairying, which then all went to paying staff and interest... and everything else

Would have been cracking country all split into 1 ha paddocks, instead of building roads and a fancy rotary

But you can't put the genie back in the bottle, and unfortunately not all sectors have the inherent flexibility of sheep/beef

 

[Sharpy]

To be honest, I wouldn't have even converted that place to dairy in the first place, Mr Sharp

If it were me, knowing what I now know it would have made a cracking beef finishing property if sheep had done their dash, I think that was the main driver, no more sheepwork and of course the promised $$$$$ of dairying, which then all went to paying staff and interest... and everything else

Would have been cracking country all split into 1 ha paddocks, instead of building roads and a fancy rotary

But you can't put the genie back in the bottle, and unfortunately not all sectors have the inherent flexibility of sheep/beef

Fair bit of food for thought there Pete, transferred across to our situation could make a big difference.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Fair bit of food for thought there Pete, transferred across to our situation could make a big difference.

Sweet, of course my opinion is worth every cent you paid for it

But he invested millions into it, that's the thing, in those days I didn't even know the likes of Kiwitech existed... even half a million bucks would have turned his sheep farm into a bull-beef fattening unit to die for.
3 nice homes and a view of the Southern Ocean...

Instead it was a compromise-based dairy unit

Here we're considerably aided that b&w beef is abundant, thanks to the dairy boom supply outstrips demand and "bulls wreck your paddocks" helps keep it that way

 

[JackoTS90]

Is this allowed in here? A device made to reduce nitrogen leaching. The farmer interviewed claimed that it reduces nitrogen leaching between 50-100%. Seems like a good idea if it works.

 

[JackoTS90]