"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Poorbuthappy]

Any silage / hay left?
Have you done a grazing plan?
I'm sticking to my grazing plan but buffer feeding them , hope that makes sense.

My back up plan is that the cows stay in longer. I'm buying hay for them, but it's not too dear this year (yet!)
I haven't written out a grazing plan, just have one in my head.
I know I should, and daughter keeps telling me so! Maybe tomorrow!!

 

[Rob Garrett]

I think that's where sheep do a better job than cattle of knocking back growth to allow something else a chance. No sheep here.

There are a few good peasant sheep keeper in the area, some will even pay for the pleasure of knocking back your grass growth! Old Golden Hoof has a place in the grazing system.

 

[Treg]

My back up plan is that the cows stay in longer. I'm buying hay for them, but it's not too dear this year (yet!)
I haven't written out a grazing plan, just have one in my head.
I know I should, and daughter keeps telling me so! Maybe tomorrow!!

Sometimes when you write it down you see it in a different way & the effects of adding or taking away a grazing field.
Also important in the strange times we're in put the plan where it can be seen easily so your daughter can see it too , so if you are unfortunate enough to get ill she can quickly & easily follow the plan , giving her & you something less to worry about.

 

[onesiedale]

There are a few good peasant sheep keeper in the area, some will even pay for the pleasure of knocking back your grass growth! Old Golden Hoof has a place in the grazing system.

Yes, but all they want to do is dump them here, not look at them and resent paying any more than 30p/week. Then if you mention electric fencing and moving daily, they just shrug their shoulders and say 'if You want to'

 

[onesiedale]

Yes, but all they want to do is dump them here, not look at them and resent paying any more than 30p/week. Then if you mention electric fencing and moving daily, they just shrug their shoulders and say 'if You want to'

This is something I could never get my head around. If a sheep is say 70 kg and eats say 2kgDM/day (14 kg week) Why is anything more than 50p/week considered expensive sheep keep when grazed DM is valued at say £80/tonne. (8p/kg)
On a £/DM basis I'd be much better trampling it in?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Because they're idiots.
The same subset @unlacedgecko and myself refer to as "the brightest minds in agriculture" have no time for giving the stock in their care a daily meal, why, when there's cake to unload and ewes to drench?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Big brown-boy is always the first in

Doesn't look very appetising to me. Those brightest minds would advise that I "bare that right back" but God alone knows why I would do that.

What's left behind are the 4 P's: phosphate, potash, parasites and problems

 

[Rob Garrett]

Yes, but all they want to do is dump them here, not look at them and resent paying any more than 30p/week. Then if you mention electric fencing and moving daily, they just shrug their shoulders and say 'if You want to'

Sounds like you have already experienced the best of the best sheep keep graziers! Still think sheep as a grazing tool have a place i.e. bearing down paddocks before overseeding, or scraping out paddocks over winter (reduces winter grass kill, manages grass clover balance, helps stagger your paddock covers for spring rotation, deposits readily available nutrients and has low ground impact), that said the job has to be done well, balancing what is best for the grass and the sheep.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Big brown-boy is always the first in

Doesn't look very appetising to me. Those brightest minds would advise that I "bare that right back" but God alone knows why I would do that.

What's left behind are the 4 P's: phosphate, potash, parasites and problems

(What I will do is put a ton of lime per acre on it, and see what happens)

 

[Rob Garrett]

This is something I could never get my head around. If a sheep is say 70 kg and eats say 2kgDM/day (14 kg week) Why is anything more than 50p/week considered expensive sheep keep when grazed DM is valued at say £80/tonne. (8p/kg)
On a £/DM basis I'd be much better trampling it in?

I think the price/head for keep is more based on the service offered and relative to the value of the output i.e. grazing objectives and price of lamb.
Just focusing on a £/kg DM basis @ 8p/kg = £58 p.a. to feed a ewe
Say you long keep lambs through to Feb lambing Apr = 10 month and they consume 200kg DM (finger in the air guess) @ 8p/kg = £16 x 1.5 lamb/ewe = £24
Total feed cost = £82
Say you average £95/lamb sold x 1.5 lambs/ewe = £142 return
£60/ewe contribution to other direct costs, labour and overheads. EASY MONEY!
Biggest costs with sheep keep are time/labour and fuel (transport/checking)
[note to self, never do the maths in public]

 

[Farmer Roy]

Because they're idiots.
The same subset @unlacedgecko and myself refer to as "the brightest minds in agriculture" have no time for giving the stock in their care a daily meal, why, when there's cake to unload and ewes to drench?

have any of those brightest minds commented on this in any of the livestock threads ?
It is for a UK audience

What is holistic grazing and what are the benefits? - Farmers Weekly

Mimicking the natural behaviour of herds and wildlife and the way they graze land could help farmers increase their grass productivity by up to 300%

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[Henarar]

A dense ley of pasture that was probably sown as Red Circle back in the '80s and has subsequently been grazed and grazed and grazed as set stocking until last year when we cell grazed the heifers over it. Absolutely no clover in there, previous tenant would have been using plenty of thistlex and dockstar along with a very small dressing of N.
Oh, plenty of buttercups ?

red circle, that's a name from the past

 

[Henarar]

Because they're idiots.
The same subset @unlacedgecko and myself refer to as "the brightest minds in agriculture" have no time for giving the stock in their care a daily meal, why, when there's cake to unload and ewes to drench?

its a lot of work to set up fencing for once a day moves for sheep at keep when they will only be going over the ground once , I wouldn't blame any sheep keep grazer for not wanting to do it

 

[Karliboy]

I’m starting to feel I’m missing a trick here at the moment.
At a guess my grass will be about 2000 ish. Nothing been on it since end off October last year except a few deer.
I’m just wondering if I’d have been better running a few young stock over it just to wake it up as such with the ripping effect of the grass while the weather has been reasonably warm. Or would that be wrong with the forecast cold spell coming back. I’m only questioning this as to the improvement @hendrebc has got with his field he mentioned a few posts back.
I’m not sure on soil temp.( I need to get a thermometer ordered) but we are south facing so warm up quick.
My sward stick for cows and calves says
May turn out pre graze 10-14 cm post 5-6 cm so I’m nearly there now at the end of March but I’m still wondering if I should do another year at half rate fert again as I’m feeling nervous about the big leap to no fert.
I know I shouldn’t be worried as I have all this grass to go at and the plan is to buy all winter fodder for next year so I’ve got my so called best land to graze as well as the perm pasture. So I should be able to extend grazing period by at least 40 days over the season ( hopefully more) that should save at least 1 bale per day in winter fodder which is about all I make at home anyway so in theory I’ve lost nothing here plus’s the straw for bedding saved too approx £180.
I guess I’m slightly nervous about change but I feel this is what I need to do to move forwards in making things pay a bit better.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think the price/head for keep is more based on the service offered and relative to the value of the output i.e. grazing objectives and price of lamb.
Just focusing on a £/kg DM basis @ 8p/kg = £58 p.a. to feed a ewe
Say you long keep lambs through to Feb lambing Apr = 10 month and they consume 200kg DM (finger in the air guess) @ 8p/kg = £16 x 1.5 lamb/ewe = £24
Total feed cost = £82
Say you average £95/lamb sold x 1.5 lambs/ewe = £142 return
£60/ewe contribution to other direct costs, labour and overheads. EASY MONEY!
Biggest costs with sheep keep are time/labour and fuel (transport/checking)
[note to self, never do the maths in public]

I charge the equivalent of 75p/week in summer and 90-95p in winter.
For lambing them, I keep half the lambs at weaning when the ewes go home.

Transferring back to kiwi $
13 weeks @1.80 + 13 weeks @1.50 = $43 per head for 6 months, plus half a lamb costfree =$80

or around $123/head income for half a year's worth of pasture maintenance, all from a sheep worth about $123 to buy

 

[Kiwi Pete]

its a lot of work to set up fencing for once a day moves for sheep at keep when they will only be going over the ground once , I wouldn't blame any sheep keep grazer for not wanting to do it

Depends if you're feeding them or screwing them, really. Read a thread on here about people using up to 6 livewires to contain sheep in which case it would be very hard work indeed.
It would make you wonder just why they kept popping out, wouldn't it, but that question wasn't asked.

If I owned the sheep then I would definitely be asking that question, and also be asking myself if I was getting any value for my money or not, as it sounds like controlled starvation rather than anything that will improve sheep or soil

 

[Henarar]

Depends if you're feeding them or screwing them, really. Read a thread on here about people using up to 6 livewires to contain sheep in which case it would be very hard work indeed.
It would make you wonder just why they kept popping out, wouldn't it, but that question wasn't asked.

If I owned the sheep then I would definitely be asking that question, and also be asking myself if I was getting any value for my money or not, as it sounds like controlled starvation rather than anything that will improve sheep or soil

The chap who puts them in here fences them himself, two wires normally keep them in though he did have one barsteward lot this time, I wouldn't ask him to put them on daily moves and not sure I would want it anyway, he works hard at the job and best of luck to him I say

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The chap who puts them in here fences them himself, two wires normally keep them in though he did have one barsteward lot this time, I wouldn't ask him to put them on daily moves and not sure I would want it anyway, he works hard at the job and best of luck to him I say

That's a big drawback to grazing other people's stock, the "båstard" ones that don't fit the system

If they're your own, a .22 rifle works well and they taste pretty good for the next few weeks.
Someone elses', this presents a problem.

One of Nathan's and two of Lindsay's were just båstards so they got hog-tied and taken back home before they taught the rest of the mob how to be båstards too.
They weren't poking through, but clearing the whole fence (quite often the permanent netting+electric paddock fences rather than the temp fence) and I would have felt bad about eating their nice hoggets ? although Lindsay did just say to "just drill the c@nting thing" he's only 5 minutes away from us.

Funny thing was that when we let it go, it cleared nearly every fence on his farm - while we were watching - the look on his face was priceless
I assume he's either lost it or shot it by now.

We're all different though, some people tolerate high deathrates and high production costs, I tolerate lots of stock shifting instead.

 

[Henarar]

That's a big drawback to grazing other people's stock, the "båstard" ones that don't fit the system

He grazes his own stock, I just collect the money

 

[Kiwi Pete]

They got the idea really fast. Didn't even need coaxing for their next shift.
Maybe having to walk under the wire for a drink helped them get comfy with the new regime, but gosh it speeds things up and simplifies things.

Now they can have 2 cells overnight without having to roll anything back, and I don't even need to wait for them to cross into the new cell if I'm in a hurry.

Next evolution will be to automate the process a little, with timers