Increasing SFI areas within agreemnet

[Clive]

So ......... rain !

It's starting to look like wheat could end up drilled late and into poor conditions here or not drilled at all even which finically is not a smart thing to do (another 45mm forecast the rest of this week here !)

under a '23 agreemnet I have the ability to increase ALH1 area ( pollinator mix drilled in spring) - a 23 agreemnet has no cap so I could replace wheat with it which is worth £852/ha

there is no limit on increasing area but it can only be reduced by 50%. - my concern / question is once increased is it that increased are that can only be reduced by 50% or does the 50% relate to the area in the agreemnet yr1 ?

anyone had any clarification on this ? i'm sure i'm not the only farmer thinking of increasing areas with current weather ?

 

[chipchap]

This same issue has crossed my mind.

Perhaps it would be best just put the whole lot in?

If SFI does not go on after 2026/7 there will be a lot of land available to rent or contract farm?

 

[warksfarmer]

So ......... rain !

It's starting to look like wheat could end up drilled late and into poor conditions here or not drilled at all even which finically is not a smart thing to do (another 45mm forecast the rest of this week here !)

under a '23 agreemnet I have the ability to increase ALH1 area ( pollinator mix drilled in spring) - a 23 agreemnet has no cap so I could replace wheat with it which is worth £852/ha

there is no limit on increasing area but it can only be reduced by 50%. - my concern / question is once increased is it that increased are that can only be reduced by 50% or does the 50% relate to the area in the agreemnet yr1 ?

anyone had any clarification on this ? i'm sure i'm not the only farmer thinking of increasing areas with current weather ?

AHL1 is £739/ha.

Plenty of time to plant winter wheat until March 25. Russian war ongoing, possible war in the middle east could see wheat prices up a bit so 3t of wheat grown accordingly would still beat it if prices shoot.

 

[kit1023]

just doing the same procress for ahl2. My understanding is that you have to submitt an "upgrade request" by email in time for it to be processed by the start of year 2. Can only be increased by a maximum of 50% and decreased by 50%. My understanding from reading the manual is that you use the 2nd years totals for the final year of sfi 23. Also states any revenue increase over 10% is subject to approval. My third year will stay the same as the second year.

 

[farmerm]

So ......... rain !

It's starting to look like wheat could end up drilled late and into poor conditions here or not drilled at all even which finically is not a smart thing to do (another 45mm forecast the rest of this week here !)

under a '23 agreemnet I have the ability to increase ALH1 area ( pollinator mix drilled in spring) - a 23 agreemnet has no cap so I could replace wheat with it which is worth £852/ha

there is no limit on increasing area but it can only be reduced by 50%. - my concern / question is once increased is it that increased are that can only be reduced by 50% or does the 50% relate to the area in the agreemnet yr1 ?

anyone had any clarification on this ? i'm sure i'm not the only farmer thinking of increasing areas with current weather ?

I have the same question though at this point I am not sure that I care, unless the forecast changes drastically in the next week I am on track for having 100% in pollen and bird seed during 2025, once I am there I may not be all that keen to rush back into cropping next Autumn... However I run into another issue.... can I escape my agreement with regards to areas committed to multispecies winter covers and IPM4 no insect. I will have met IPM4 for year 1 but it can not stack on AHL1.... I could still meet IPM4 by replacing some undrilled land with more birdseed for 2025 and 2026 but that wasnt my wish.... Multispecies is the bigger challenge... I can broadcast some covers asap and meet my 2024 commitment but I will have nowhere for 2025, even if I physically remove a block of AHL1 I don't believe I can declare both AHL1 and Multispecies winter cover on the same parcel in the same year....

 

[farmerm]

just doing the same procress for ahl2. My understanding is that you have to submitt an "upgrade request" by email in time for it to be processed by the start of year 2. Can only be increased by a maximum of 50% and decreased by 50%. My understanding from reading the manual is that you use the 2nd years totals for the final year of sfi 23. Also states any revenue increase over 10% is subject to approval. My third year will stay the same as the second year.

Where does it say that about increases over 10%? Mind you I think it is all subject to approval, it is not clear how much upgrade requests will simply be rubber stumped and how much will be scrutinized and rejected.... @Clive with the limits now imposed on AHL1 on new agreements I am slightly worried we might get a nasty surprise when we request an increase, despite all the earlier talk from Janet et al, they could turn around and say no, or limited us to adding Num3. I am now anxiously composing an SFI enquiry with regard to my intentions........


5.1.3 Requesting changes to your SFI agreement
You’ll be able to request some changes to your SFI agreement during its 3-year term.Upgrading your agreementYou can upgrade your SFI agreement to add more SFI actions and land.135SFI 2023 handbook v7 May 2024To do this, you must submit an ‘upgrade request’ towards the end of the first and second years of your 3-year SFI agreement.You must submit your upgrade request by the relevant deadline. We’ll tell you what date that is. We will not accept your upgrade request if we receive it after that date.If we approve your upgrade request, you’ll need to confirm that you accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you. If you accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you, the updated agreement will usually apply from the start of the following agreement year.If you do not accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you, your original agreement will continue without the upgrades you requested.

Reducing what you’re doing in your agreement or ending it early
During the 3-year term of your SFI agreement, you will not usually be able to:• reduce what you’re doing in your agreement, by removing SFI actions or land• end your agreement early If you find you cannot do what’s required under your SFI agreement (a ‘change ofcircumstances’), we may allow you to reduce what you’re doing in your SFI agreement or end your agreement early. If we agree to let you do this, you may have to repay some, or all, of the money already paid to you.You will not need to make a repayment for the affected agreement year if you’ve:• completed all the SFI actions in your SFI agreement for a full agreement year• submitted an annual declaration for the relevant agreement yearIf you have not done this, you may need to make a repayment for the affected agreement year. Unlike previous schemes, there will be no additional financial ‘penalties’ applied.If we allow you to remove land from your SFI agreement, this may affect your SFI management payment as it’s based on the area of land in your agreement, up to 50 hectares.Read the information about what happens if you find you cannot comply with your agreement (section 5.3.3) to find out more about a change of circumstances.

 

[chipchap]

I think the rules at the time you started your agreement vary.

 

[Clive]

AHL1 is £739/ha.

Plenty of time to plant winter wheat until March 25. Russian war ongoing, possible war in the middle east could see wheat prices up a bit so 3t of wheat grown accordingly would still beat it if prices shoot.

i wont plant after October, maybe mid November at the latest - not wise on our soils that need big biomass going into spring if you want yield

tried that a couple years ago and it was a waste of time really vs that £739 for AHL1 (got mixed up with ALH2 rates in my post !)

 

[Clive]

I think the rules at the time you started your agreement vary.

yes any 23 agreemnet with a start date after they added the 25% cap would be limited and the dates re any '24 agreements would also compromise the option

but for pre cap '23 agreemnets this couild be a good solution if you cant get cereals in

 

[Clive]

Where does it say that about increases over 10%? Mind you I think it is all subject to approval, it is not clear how much upgrade requests will simply be rubber stumped and how much will be scrutinized and rejected.... @Clive with the limits now imposed on AHL1 on new agreements I am slightly worried we might get a nasty surprise when we request an increase, despite all the earlier talk from Janet et al, they could turn around and say no, or limited us to adding Num3. I am now anxiously composing an SFI enquiry with regard to my intentions........


5.1.3 Requesting changes to your SFI agreement
You’ll be able to request some changes to your SFI agreement during its 3-year term.Upgrading your agreementYou can upgrade your SFI agreement to add more SFI actions and land.135SFI 2023 handbook v7 May 2024To do this, you must submit an ‘upgrade request’ towards the end of the first and second years of your 3-year SFI agreement.You must submit your upgrade request by the relevant deadline. We’ll tell you what date that is. We will not accept your upgrade request if we receive it after that date.If we approve your upgrade request, you’ll need to confirm that you accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you. If you accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you, the updated agreement will usually apply from the start of the following agreement year.If you do not accept your updated SFI agreement by the date we’ll tell you, your original agreement will continue without the upgrades you requested.

Reducing what you’re doing in your agreement or ending it early
During the 3-year term of your SFI agreement, you will not usually be able to:• reduce what you’re doing in your agreement, by removing SFI actions or land• end your agreement early If you find you cannot do what’s required under your SFI agreement (a ‘change ofcircumstances’), we may allow you to reduce what you’re doing in your SFI agreement or end your agreement early. If we agree to let you do this, you may have to repay some, or all, of the money already paid to you.You will not need to make a repayment for the affected agreement year if you’ve:• completed all the SFI actions in your SFI agreement for a full agreement year• submitted an annual declaration for the relevant agreement yearIf you have not done this, you may need to make a repayment for the affected agreement year. Unlike previous schemes, there will be no additional financial ‘penalties’ applied.If we allow you to remove land from your SFI agreement, this may affect your SFI management payment as it’s based on the area of land in your agreement, up to 50 hectares.Read the information about what happens if you find you cannot comply with your agreement (section 5.3.3) to find out more about a change of circumstances.

23 agreemnet (pre cap) is a contract and clearly states you can increase option ares as much as you want on and reduce them by up to 50%

That can't be changed, its a legally binding contract

Later agreemnets have different conditions

 

[case44]

Still not clear about increasing options under 2023 pre 25% limit agreement.Also where was the 10% limit increase on revenue in my agreement?
Given the fact I have had almost 50mm rain today with maize to be harvested can I go Stubble Turnips,Spring Cover crop SOH2,Summer Cover crop SOH3 then into Wheat next year?

 

[farmerm]

23 agreemnet (pre cap) is a contract and clearly states you can increase option ares as much as you want on and reduce them by up to 50%

That can't be changed, its a legally binding contract

Later agreemnets have different conditions

I will be delighted if you can point me to the phrase " as much as you want" in either the handbook or the terms and conditions.... I can see a route in which, if they so choose, requested increases could be limited by the RPA whilst remain within the legally binding contract. Lets hope we have Janets new pragmatic RPA not the old one...

The handbook, I think, clearly answers your query with regard to reductions for year 3? Minimum is 50% of year 1 regardless of any increase in year 2.


"Rotational SFI actions If you choose a rotational SFI action, you’ll tell us the area and location of that action for the first year of your SFI agreement in your application. It will be possible for you to vary the coverage of rotational actions, so they work with your crop rotation and different sizes of land parcels. This means that in the second and third years of your agreement, you’ll be able to do the action on:• a larger area than you entered into the action for the first year of your SFI agreement• a lower area, as long as it’s at least 50% of the area you entered into the action for the first year of your agreement – for example, if you enter 10ha into a rotational action for the first year, you can decrease that area to 5ha for the second year and then either keep it as 5ha for the third year or increase it again"

 

[Zippy768]

23 agreemnet (pre cap) is a contract and clearly states you can increase option ares as much as you want on and reduce them by up to 50%

That can't be changed, its a legally binding contract

Later agreemnets have different conditions

I've read exactly as this. Under pre cap, and option included in the first year can be increased no end, but must not be more that 50% reduced.
I saw nothing in that manual that suggested otherwise.
It did suggest that one could add in options in the following year, but they didn't know how - that has obviously been scrapped with the newer capped version

 

[Clive]

I will be delighted if you can point me to the phrase " as much as you want" in either the handbook or the terms and conditions.... I can see a route in which, if they so choose, requested increases could be limited by the RPA whilst remain within the legally binding contract. Lets hope we have Janets new pragmatic RPA not the old one...

The handbook, I think, clearly answers your query with regard to reductions for year 3? Minimum is 50% of year 1 regardless of any increase in year 2.


"Rotational SFI actions If you choose a rotational SFI action, you’ll tell us the area and location of that action for the first year of your SFI agreement in your application. It will be possible for you to vary the coverage of rotational actions, so they work with your crop rotation and different sizes of land parcels. This means that in the second and third years of your agreement, you’ll be able to do the action on:• a larger area than you entered into the action for the first year of your SFI agreement• a lower area, as long as it’s at least 50% of the area you entered into the action for the first year of your agreement – for example, if you enter 10ha into a rotational action for the first year, you can decrease that area to 5ha for the second year and then either keep it as 5ha for the third year or increase it again"

you answer your question above - it says you can do this on a “larger area”
……. there is no upper limit in a early pre cap ‘23 agreement but as stated there is a maximum of 50% reduction allowed

 

[farmerm]

Still not clear about increasing options under 2023 pre 25% limit agreement.Also where was the 10% limit increase on revenue in my agreement?
Given the fact I have had almost 50mm rain today with maize to be harvested can I go Stubble Turnips,Spring Cover crop SOH2,Summer Cover crop SOH3 then into Wheat next year?

I have not looked much into sfi24 As I read it, in that instance your SOH2 need to be followed by a cash crop and your SOH3 proceeded by a cash crop, ie you can not apply for both SOH2 and SOH3 on the same parcel in the same year. But do not quote me on that...

 

[Zippy768]

I have the same question though at this point I am not sure that I care, unless the forecast changes drastically in the next week I am on track for having 100% in pollen and bird seed during 2025, once I am there I may not be all that keen to rush back into cropping next Autumn... However I run into another issue.... can I escape my agreement with regards to areas committed to multispecies winter covers and IPM4 no insect. I will have met IPM4 for year 1 but it can not stack on AHL1.... I could still meet IPM4 by replacing some undrilled land with more birdseed for 2025 and 2026 but that wasnt my wish.... Multispecies is the bigger challenge... I can broadcast some covers asap and meet my 2024 commitment but I will have nowhere for 2025, even if I physically remove a block of AHL1 I don't believe I can declare both AHL1 and Multispecies winter cover on the same parcel in the same year....

I was told simply if you don't achieve an action, just do not declare it at year end.
This potentially offers the ability to put (on the system) required %acres in places where you have no intention of doing it.

Willl the computer not allow "no insect" and ahl1 in same scheme year.
And was "no insect" rotational?

 

[Zippy768]

Also they only ever compared 50% reduction or increasing of areas to the first year entries, NOT as a running total

 

[farmerm]

you answer your question above - it says you can do this on a “larger area”
……. there is no upper limit in a early pre cap ‘23 agreement but as stated there is a maximum of 50% reduction allowed

Indeed and hopefully unlimited is how it will be administered... I will not spell out the alternative, the RPA do not need me giving them ideas

 

[farmerm]

I was told simply if you don't achieve an action, just do not declare it at year end.
This potentially offers the ability to put (on the system) required %acres in places where you have no intention of doing it.

Willl the computer not allow "no insect" and ahl1 in same scheme year.
And was "no insect" rotational?

Yes to AHL2 (bird) and IMP4 in same year but no to AHL1 nectar and IMP4 in same year. Yes IPM4 is rotational
Surely if it is as simple as not declaring an action at year end then the expectation of 50% minimums for year 2 and 3 would be completely meaningless?

 

[Zippy768]

Yes to AHL2 (bird) and IMP4 in same year but no to AHL1 nectar and IMP4 in same year. Yes IPM4 is rotational
Surely if it is as simple as not declaring an action at year end then the expectation of 50% minimums for year 2 and 3 would be completely meaningless?

Thats no problem with the ahl1/ipm4 then. Apply for ahl1 in March on the unsound ww. Ignore the ipm4.

Edit. I see your point. Unless you already had ipm4 applied on 2/3 ur farm but will now be 100% ahl1 .

I was told if you hadn't achieved an aim, then don't declare. Of course they aren't wanting to pay out when you haven't bothered and rather than been dishonest in absence of an inspection.

Very different attempting and failing than not attempting at all.