Insulating stone house walls

[simon-0116]

Started doing up a house to live in ourselves which is 2ft thick stone no damp coarse, very little damp only up to top skirt boards. Central heating in every room, loft insulation and double glazing.

So initial thoughts
Up stairs dot dab insulation plaster boards straight onto outside walls. Then plaster all walls with normal plaster.

Down stairs same but it's lime plastered so just wondered if it will effect it breathing as only a 10mm gap on dabs.

Also anyone had problems 5+ years if used normal plaster on stone . Plaster not keen on lime, presume because used to normal type.
Original plaster is all good just odd bits loose.
Dint want to regrets not using lime in 5 years plus.
Hope that all makes sense.
Thanks.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Everyone advised me not to dot and dab outside walls as they will eventually draw the damp through but to stud them with timber, insulate between the timber and just use normal plaster boards. Although a bit more fiddly it was much easier to square up and level the walls. I did dot and dab some internal walls and found it to be as fiddly as stone walls are never square or plumb and was using bags of the stuff!!

 

[Mur Huwcun]

One more thing, we didn’t do one gable end as it had previously been plastered and skimmed and was a good finish, square and tidy. There’s a noticeable difference in temp in that room whenever the wind is against that gable. Do it all now, loosing three or four inches all around the room will be nothing in 12 months time. The walls are still breathing behind the insulation and plasterboards. We actually lost over 8 inches in one corner of kitchen in order to square up the extension with existing house. Nobody would notice now.

 

[Dry Rot]

Watching this one with interest. Stone walls here, though not as thick as yours. Foil backed plasterboard fixed to 50mm x 50mm timber framing. The result is heat is conducted away from inside the room and disappears up the gap by convection and escapes through the pitched roof in the loft! I don't think it is "a Scottish thing" to fix plasterboard directly onto stone work but I could be wrong.

I lowered the ground outside the house, put in a concrete floor with damp proof membrane and got a damp proof course injected into the walls. That has worked well. I've also improved the land drainage so lowering the water table overall which has helped to dry up the whole farm.

I have been considering having all the plasterboard stripped out and Kingspan insulation installed between plasterboard and walls, similarly on timber framing. But I am in the Scottish Highlands and for the moment a very good Woodwarm stove keeps out the cold and provides background heating.

Lots of interesting stuff on the Internet if you Google. Just be very careful of what advice you listen to as those with a commercial interest will try to talk you into using their services to solve the problem -- and it may not be the best solution! Stone wall are compllcated because they "breathe". Maybe best to get advice from a building surveyor with specialist experience.

 

[dubs]

Watching this one with interest. Stone walls here, though not as thick as yours. Foil backed plasterboard fixed to 50mm x 50mm timber framing. The result is heat is conducted away from inside the room and disappears up the gap by convection and escapes through the pitched roof in the loft! I don't think it is "a Scottish thing" to fix plasterboard directly onto stone work but I could be wrong.

have you got insulation in between the 50 by 50 framing ?
we're currently doing our bed room and i've strip out all the plaster lath walls and put 3 by 2s up, high ceiling, and fitted 75mm insulation in between and re plaster boarded.
also dont know about england but there are in scotland full grants for insulation.
A company comes in and fixes insulated plaster boards to the inside of your hose but on outside walls and attic rooms and you only pay for the redecoration. mother inlaw just had it done.

 

[wdah/him]

interesting thread, I was doing a search on the forum and this from today comes up.

Basically here we have a 1600 house, original farm house, 2 storey, good condition in general I would say. there is a big kitchen and bathroom has been built onto it in the last 30 years, coldest part of the house as it gets no sun, sun actually rises on gable end for some reason. It is dry with very little damp but this is only at the wall that has soil against it, if the house is renovated this will be taken away and a path right around the house placed to lower the water level.What I would like to know is would it be possible to leave the two inner walls(three rooms two wall layout in original house go to the roof) finishing at the ceiling/floor height and fit a new ceiling/floor as this is the worst part if the internal house and it would leave it possible to arrange the rooms up stairs better. Also would plan on putting another bedroom and bathroom above kitchen, how well/easy is it to get stone and blockwork to match in look term-thinking of one breathing and other not.

house has been empty 4 years or so, has central heating but I would upgrade it and original wiring from 50plues years ago which would be updated too.

we fitted a wood stove about ten years ago and in the original chimney you could still see the pivot holes fot the crane hook fireplace, to me there is too much family history here, apparently ancestrial homestead from the plantation

 

[Dry Rot]

have you got insulation in between the 50 by 50 framing ?
we're currently doing our bed room and i've strip out all the plaster lath walls and put 3 by 2s up, high ceiling, and fitted 75mm insulation in between and re plaster boarded.
also dont know about england but there are in scotland full grants for insulation.
A company comes in and fixes insulated plaster boards to the inside of your hose but on outside walls and attic rooms and you only pay for the redecoration. mother inlaw just had it done.

Yes, I've looked into that but suspect the main heat loss is through the pitch roof and insulating that would be a major upheaval.

I did apply for a grant for a new stove a few years ago but abandoned that as I smelt a rat! Two lots of surveyors came and did exactly the same measurements and tried to convince me to accept a stove that had poor reviews as well as ripping out all the microbore central heating to replace with larger pipes. I actually saved money by getting a better stove for a 20% discount and have left the piping as it was!

No insulation between the framing but this is what I would do IF I renovate.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

@renewablejohn has been down this road I think

 

[bobk]

With stone walls you need to batten out and then screw insulation giving a cavity , dpc is essential in the UK .

 

[Still Farming]

Plenty of threads on here about it all.

 

[Dry Rot]

Maybe plenty of threads but there's always hope of new developments and ideas.

 

[renewablejohn]

@renewablejohn has been down this road I think

Been down this route with grade 2 listed farmhouse dating back to 1650's originally full of damp due to previous owner using modern plasters. Now after getting rid of any modern cements and plasters and replacing with lime mortars and lime plasters the building is warm and dry throughout. Went on a course to learn how to do lime mortar and lime plaster as local builders did not know the techniques or any that did where booked up years in advance. Now knowing how to use lime I will not be going back to using cement as lime is so much more forgiving.

 

[Ormond]

Live in a barn conversion, was converted about 13 years ago.....solid sandstone walls....dot and dab insulated plasterboard on all external walls..50mm insulation....easy to heat...the insulation has a vapour barrier and is a closed cell so no damp in the house at all....no condensation because of no cold walls....dont dot and dab plaster board it will track through.....had it near a door and replaced with thin battens and foil backed plaster board as there wasn't room for insulated plasterboard. The barn is into a slight bank at the back...it was tanked out around this area as well

 

[simon-0116]

Maybe plenty of threads but there's always hope of new developments and ideas.

That's what I was hoping or people's problems 5 yrs latter

 

[simon-0116]

Been down this route with grade 2 listed farmhouse dating back to 1650's originally full of damp due to previous owner using modern plasters. Now after getting rid of any modern cements and plasters and replacing with lime mortars and lime plasters the building is warm and dry throughout. Went on a course to learn how to do lime mortar and lime plaster as local builders did not know the techniques or any that did where booked up years in advance. Now knowing how to use lime I will not be going back to using cement as lime is so much more forgiving.

Is lime harder to work with spread. Do you get same smith Finnish like normal plaster

 

[simon-0116]

Live in a barn conversion, was converted about 13 years ago.....solid sandstone walls....dot and dab insulated plasterboard on all external walls..50mm insulation....easy to heat...the insulation has a vapour barrier and is a closed cell so no damp in the house at all....no condensation because of no cold walls....dont dot and dab plaster board it will track through.....had it near a door and replaced with thin battens and foil backed plaster board as there wasn't room for insulated plasterboard. The barn is into a slight bank at the back...it was tanked out around this area as well

Did they dot dab with standard board adhesive or some thing diffent to let it breath.

 

[Ormond]

Did they dot dab with standard board adhesive or some thing diffent to let it breath.

Im not sure, I wasn't the owner when it was converted... .Im guessing normal as they'll be a certain small amount of air flow in behind there which is a good thing I think. I had a real condensation issue in a solid brick wall rental terrace property...they were built with plenty of airflow...open fires, doors and glazing not sealed great. Add double glazing and upvc doors in the mix....tenants that won't open a window...condensation settling on cold exterior walls

 

[renewablejohn]

Is lime harder to work with spread. Do you get same smith Finnish like normal plaster

Perfectly smooth just the same as ordinary plasters you have a base course and a finish coat with slightly different mixes. I am lazy and use ready mixed plasters in tubs that just need stirring with an electric drill stirrer to remix. Results even for me as a non plasterer are excellent and idiot proof. As for lime mortar the secret is in the brew of tea. You have to do an initial mix of the standard amounts of lime course sand and water with a drill mixer then put the kettle on for a brew then after half an hour of having your brew give the lime mortar a final mix before using.
Also with any sort of lime mortar or plaster I use a garden sprayer to apply water to whatever your doing as it acts like superglue.
Learnt the basic lime mortar and plaster methods on a practical 2 day course at Ty Mawr in Wales and was worth every penny and saved me a fortune. Would recommend to anyone with an old house.

 

[Happy hillbily]

interesting thread, I was doing a search on the forum and this from today comes up.

Basically here we have a 1600 house, original farm house, 2 storey, good condition in general I would say. there is a big kitchen and bathroom has been built onto it in the last 30 years, coldest part of the house as it gets no sun, sun actually rises on gable end for some reason. It is dry with very little damp but this is only at the wall that has soil against it, if the house is renovated this will be taken away and a path right around the house placed to lower the water level.What I would like to know is would it be possible to leave the two inner walls(three rooms two wall layout in original house go to the roof) finishing at the ceiling/floor height and fit a new ceiling/floor as this is the worst part if the internal house and it would leave it possible to arrange the rooms up stairs better. Also would plan on putting another bedroom and bathroom above kitchen, how well/easy is it to get stone and blockwork to match in look term-thinking of one breathing and other not.

house has been empty 4 years or so, has central heating but I would upgrade it and original wiring from 50plues years ago which would be updated too.

we fitted a wood stove about ten years ago and in the original chimney you could still see the pivot holes fot the crane hook fireplace, to me there is too much family history here, apparently ancestrial homestead from the plantation

If the house has been empty for a certain amount of time theres a possibility of paying a reduced percentage of vat on the build / restoration. A friend of mine started his house renovation a month too early and lost out to the tune of £20k. Only found out about the scheme half way through the build.

 

[stroller]

https://bauwer.co.uk
I've just stripped a mix of lime plaster and modern plaster off a spare bedroom wall and replaced it with the bauwer light, because the room was not used much and has a north and west facing external wall it was always cold so we kept the door shut. Then when it was used the warm air condensed on the cold walls, the lime plaster bits were ok but the gypsum plaster bits were always spotted with mould and the paper was loose. Not finished it yet and I was going to post some pics when I have, the room is now noticeably warmer, the walls are not cold to the touch. I'm now regretting not doing the internal lath and plaster wall as the warm external wall shows up how much colder the internal wall is, I think because it is open to the attic and in spite of lots of insulation up there there is a cold draft circulating.