Inverdale Gene (Aberdales)

[Nithsdale]

You can breed inverdale to inverdale. Just have to accept 50% of ewe lambs will be non breeders.

Have a mate doing just this, checks them for tiny teets (first major sign of non breeder) and then tups all remaining ewe lambs he likes . Kills everything not in lamb at scanning. With Hogg prices as they are he has been doing pretty well with this system .

The 50% which will breed - if bred to the aberdale again, is it only 50% of that lamb crop are breeders, too? (That's an ever decreasing flock of pure females, isn't it - you loss 50% every generation?).

Does the male side suffer the same issue?

 

[unlacedgecko]

The 50% which will breed - if bred to the aberdale again, is it only 50% of that lamb crop are breeders, too? (That's an ever decreasing flock of pure females, isn't it - you loss 50% every generation?).

Does the male side suffer the same issue?

It's a single gene found on the female chromosome. 2 copies means sterility. So breeding inverdale to inverdale will always lead to 50% of ewe lambs being sterile.

Inverdale to inverdale means 50% of males will be carriers. All females bred from this male will have at least 1 copy of the gene.

50% will be non carriers. No effect for non carriers.

Wouldn't be an ever decreasing flock unless the replacement rate is more than 50% of the ewe lamb crop.

 

[Nithsdale]

It's a single gene found on the female chromosome. 2 copies means sterility. So breeding inverdale to inverdale will always lead to 50% of ewe lambs being sterile.

Inverdale to inverdale means 50% of males will be carriers. All females bred from this male will have at least 1 copy of the gene.

50% will be non carriers. No effect for non carriers.

Wouldn't be an ever decreasing flock unless the replacement rate is more than 50% of the ewe lamb crop.

Depends on the biggest limiting factor to almost all flocks - land available to you.

You effectively need twice as many ewes bred pure, as a minimum, to get enough breeding females which can be kept as replacements

 

[unlacedgecko]

Depends on the biggest limiting factor to almost all flocks - land available to you.

You effectively need twice as many ewes bred pure, as a minimum, to get enough breeding females which can be kept as replacements

With the sire being texel (or having a large dose of texel blood), is there any need to use terminals?

 

[Nithsdale]

With the sire being texel (or having a large dose of texel blood), is there any need to use terminals?

Maybe not... but most flocks breeding ewe lambs have a "B" flock they'd rather not keep females from.

You'd be pretty gutted if you ear notched all the ewe lambs you thought were worthy of keeping and 75% turned out to be fudders

 

[MJT]

Maybe not... but most flocks breeding ewe lambs have a "B" flock they'd rather not keep females from.

You'd be pretty gutted if you ear notched all the ewe lambs you thought were worthy of keeping and 75% turned out to be fudders

Once you’ve pulled out any with tiny / no teets at weaning then it would be more like 15% which isn’t all that bad .

 

[Nithsdale]

Once you’ve pulled out any with tiny / no teets at weaning then it would be more like 15% which isn’t all that bad .

How can you say that if you only notch at birth the ewe lambs you think you'd want to keep.

Some years you might 'loss' 15% of your keepers through non breeders, other years you could be left with only 15% that'll breed!...

 

[MJT]

How can you say that if you only notch at birth the ewe lambs you think you'd want to keep.

Some years you might 'loss' 15% of your keepers through non breeders, other years you could be left with only 15% that'll breed!...

I don’t put Inverdale on Inverdale so not really worried.

But if I did then out of my Inverdale ewes Id happily keep the majority of ewe lambs born. If they’ve not been assisted, mother has plenty of milk and is very maternal then I’d keep them no problem so in theory plenty to choose from.

 

[unlacedgecko]

How can you say that if you only notch at birth the ewe lambs you think you'd want to keep.

Some years you might 'loss' 15% of your keepers through non breeders, other years you could be left with only 15% that'll breed!...

500 inverdale ewes should wean 900 lambs (180%). Assuming 50:50 gender ratio that’s 450 ewe lambs. Of them, 50% would be sterile, so 225. That leaves 225 breeding capable ewe lambs.

You can cull out over half of them and still have enough to maintain a flock with a 20% replacement rate (100 ewe lambs).

 

[Nithsdale]

500 inverdale ewes should wean 900 lambs (180%). Assuming 50:50 gender ratio that’s 450 ewe lambs. Of them, 50% would be sterile, so 225. That leaves 225 breeding capable ewe lambs.

You can cull out over half of them and still have enough to maintain a flock with a 20% replacement rate (100 ewe lambs).

Yes, you'd hope... but we all know theory and reality sometimes don't agree

 

[unlacedgecko]

Yes, you'd hope... but we all know theory and reality sometimes don't agree

As I’m finding to my cost. Repeatedly.

 

[Nithsdale]

As I’m finding to my cost. Repeatedly.

You're either winning, or you're learning

 

[CopperBeech]

Hardly... If other breeds carry the capabilities

500 inverdale ewes should wean 900 lambs (180%). Assuming 50:50 gender ratio that’s 450 ewe lambs. Of them, 50% would be sterile, so 225. That leaves 225 breeding capable ewe lambs.

You can cull out over half of them and still have enough to maintain a flock with a 20% replacement rate (100 ewe lambs).

so if selling ewe lambs is your game then you basically turn half your potential sellers into a fat lamb worth (usually) 25-30% less

 

[George C]

Maybe not... but most flocks breeding ewe lambs have a "B" flock they'd rather not keep females from.

You'd be pretty gutted if you ear notched all the ewe lambs you thought were worthy of keeping and 75% turned out to be fudders

Yes, you'd hope... but we all know theory and reality sometimes don't agree

Alternatively you could just put the ewes you know are carriers to a non carrier ram. None of their progeny will be infertile but 50:50, carriers / non carriers. You could then test them to identify carriers.

 

[unlacedgecko]

so if selling ewe lambs is your game then you basically turn half your potential sellers into a fat lamb worth (usually) 25-30% less

at this time I have no interest in selling breeding stock of either sex.

 

[NZDan]

The 50% which will breed - if bred to the aberdale again, is it only 50% of that lamb crop are breeders, too? (That's an ever decreasing flock of pure females, isn't it - you loss 50% every generation?).

Does the male side suffer the same issue?

I have a couple of flocks I scan for who do this mating system, Inverdale Rams on Inverdale ewes, teat score all lambs at Tailing, replacement ewe lambs are mating and then followed up with harnessed teaser rams, any ewe lambs not scanned pregnant or harness marked are culled. In one flock ewe hoggets and Old ewes are mated to terminal rams (IDF x Texel) when the ewe flock has been expanded these ewe lambs are kept as well since 50% carring the gene. The 2nd flock uses about 20% none carrier rams, this educes the sterile ewe lambs to about 40% but also means some replacements aren't carriers. Both use Inverdales from the same breeder and they are a mix of Tex, PD, Rom and Coopworth
Edit. Also bear in mind that these flocks are weaning around 180%. S 2000 ewes weaning 3600 lambs. 1800 ewe lambs, 900 fertile ewe lambs, 500 replacements needed from 900 ewe lambs so plenty of selection room. even room for more to the terminal if need be.

 

[Valesheep]

We have around 9 Aberdale tups for 800 ewes.
They have a set annual fee which declines with age, starting at £800 but they occasionally have an auction so you can bid for the better rams at a premium price above the annual fee. I try to select the tups I want and am happy to pay a sensible premium for the first year to get the best EBV's and easy lambing tups. They are free for the 5th season and the lease cost goes down every year you have them.
We have customers for all the ewe lambs we can produce now at a significant premium and are usually off the farm in August. It suits us well and a neighbour also uses the tups in an outdoor system.

The Texels they use are mostly good rams so the wether lambs finish easily and at good weights. The Aberdale Romney ewes do need managing so as not to get too many triplets or quads so it is important not to flush the ewes. 200% is normal and if you want can get to 220% plus.

 

[Valesheep]

I would be Interested In putting aberdale across my Nz Romney ewes. What type of % would you expect of a ewe that’s offspring from an aberdale ram and would I need to keep crossing with the aberdale or do the females keep passing on the inverdale gene to their daughters?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I would be Interested In putting aberdale across my Nz Romney ewes. What type of % would you expect of a ewe that’s offspring from an aberdale ram and would I need to keep crossing with the aberdale or do the females keep passing on the inverdale gene to their daughters?

This explains inverdale genetics.

All other things being equal, crossbred females should scan up to 60% higher than their mothers.

I have 2x inverdale shearlings for sale. They're both double myomax. PM or call me if you're interested. 07842 071126

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

I would be Interested In putting aberdale across my Nz Romney ewes. What type of % would you expect of a ewe that’s offspring from an aberdale ram and would I need to keep crossing with the aberdale or do the females keep passing on the inverdale gene to their daughters?

It depends entirely on how you manage them pre tupping.
There is no doubt that the Inverdale (Texel) on the Romney is probably the best cross.

If you have Romneys that are unflushed you can expect around 180% plus without too many triplets and will happily lamb outside.
If you flush them then 220% is very achievable but needs to be in an indoor lambing system and be geared up to take off the triplets.

Very good in years like this where sheep have struggled for grass.

You have a very low maintenance ewe and a very high value cull ewe at the end.
Crossed to a Beltex you have very saleable lambs as finished or stores.