IPM4, cropping or scheme year, that is the question?

[Reg]

I was just at the point of applying for SFI with the hope of a 1st March 24 start date. I had applied for IPM4 on parcels which would not receive an insecticide between 1st March 2024 and 1st March 2025. However having seen the webinar from Friday it would appear my insecticide free year should possibly be a cropping year not a scheme year. So for a March 1st start date should this be Harvest 24 or Harvest 25. If Harvest 24 do insecticides applied in autumn 23 before my agreement starts count or not? What are peoples thought? I don’t really want to miss 1st March start date or get the application wrong.
TIA

 

[Grass And Grain]

Sorry, I haven't got a useful answer. Other than SFI seems to raise as many questions as answers.

 

[Zippy768]

I was just at the point of applying for SFI with the hope of a 1st March 24 start date. I had applied for IPM4 on parcels which would not receive an insecticide between 1st March 2024 and 1st March 2025. However having seen the webinar from Friday it would appear my insecticide free year should possibly be a cropping year not a scheme year. So for a March 1st start date should this be Harvest 24 or Harvest 25. If Harvest 24 do insecticides applied in autumn 23 before my agreement starts count or not? What are peoples thought? I don’t really want to miss 1st March start date or get the application wrong.
TIA

Tbh, I think just apply for ipm4 on all ground possible. You can declare at year end if you were unable to avoid using an insecticide.
I think harvest 25 crop to answer your question. Ur autumn 23 applications were before any agreement.

I'm hoping for a march 1st start. But if delayed, is April 1st that much of a problem?
Can't really see there being much difference

 

[farmerm]

If you choose the option of Wild bird seed or legume fallow or nectar pollen... you have up to 12 months to establish that option and you must then retain that provision for the duration necessary to achieve the aims of that option.

Follow that logic and the guidance in the handbook you really should have up to 12 months to begin IPM4 on the declared parcel and you must then retain IPM4 on that parcel for the full 12 months.

You might decide the parcel in year 1 runs IPM4 from March to March 2024-25, next year you should be able to assign IPM4 to a different parcel and for different dates, perhaps June to June 2025-26 September to September 2026-27.

This is how it should work...

The only caveat is those options I mention specifically mention you have 12 months to start to establish them, this option doesn't specify this but neither does it specify IPM4 runs from the agreement start.. The guidance does specify "it is up to you how you complete this action" In my book if you carry out IPM4 on a parcel for a full 12 months the aim is met regardless of the start date.

This would be a perfectly ration approach, achieves the aims and as I read it within both the spirit and the letter of the rule book.

Anyone got an alternative view?

 

[Zippy768]

View attachment 1161824
If you choose the option of Wild bird seed or legume fallow or nectar pollen... you have up to 12 months to establish that option and you must then retain that provision for the duration necessary to achieve the aims of that option.

Follow that logic and the guidance in the handbook you really should have up to 12 months to begin IPM4 on the declared parcel and you must then retain IPM4 on that parcel for the full 12 months.

You might decide the parcel in year 1 runs IPM4 from March to March 2024-25, next year you should be able to assign IPM4 to a different parcel and for different dates, perhaps June to June 2025-26 September to September 2026-27.

This is how it should work...

The only caveat is those options I mention specifically mention you have 12 months to start to establish them, this option doesn't specify this but neither does it specify IPM4 runs from the agreement start.. The guidance does specify "it is up to you how you complete this action" In my book if you carry out IPM4 on a parcel for a full 12 months the aim is met regardless of the start date.

This would be a perfectly ration approach, achieves the aims and as I read it within both the spirit and the letter of the rule book.

Anyone got an alternative view?

I thought one had 12 months to achieve the aim? Not just establish

 

[farmerm]

I thought one had 12 months to achieve the aim? Not just establish

No it is most certainly 12 months to establish, you have as long as is necessary to meet the aim, you must take as long as necessary to meet the aim. Say you have a 1st December 2023 start date. You sow winter bird seed some time this year either in spring or after harvest if brave. You cant complete the aim of providing winter bird feed until you reach the end of February which would be month 14 of the agreement. You establish an option on a parcel at the time when it is most practical to do so and you continue with it until the aim has been achieved. Why on earth should IPM4 be locked to the agreement start date, that would be no good to anyone.


"establish the blocks or strips of pollen and nectar flower mix during the first 12 months of your SFI agreement"

 

[Zippy768]

No it is most certainly 12 months to establish, you have as long as is necessary to meet the aim, you must take as long as necessary to meet the aim. Say you have a 1st December 2023 start date. You sow winter bird seed some time this year either in spring or after harvest if brave. You cant complete the aim of providing winter bird feed until you reach the end of February which would be month 14 of the agreement. You establish an option on a parcel at the time when it is most practical to do so and you continue with it until the aim has been achieved. Why on earth should IPM4 be locked to the agreement start date, that would be no good to anyone.


"establish the blocks or strips of pollen and nectar flower mix during the first 12 months of your SFI agreement"

Yep, .
Been having another read through the booklet this evening. Not sure that changes anything in my plan.

Alot to get the head around

 

[jessop123]

At the moment IPM4 is rotational and as I see it, should be implemented as soon as your agreement starts on the parcels selected. Although it seems like they are going to change it to cropping year so who knows how they will do this with some agreements already started etc

 

[farmerm]

At the moment IPM4 is rotational and as I see it, should be implemented as soon as your agreement starts on the parcels selected. Although it seems like they are going to change it to cropping year so who knows how they will do this with some agreements already started etc

"it us up to you how you complete this action...." I can see absolutely no justification for rpa to complain on what start date is chosen or even if different start dates are applied to different parcels.

eg 1st March 2024 start agreement and it suits you to run IPM4 on parcel A from June 24 to June 25.
Year 2 IPM4 moves to parcel B and you decide to apply it from May 25 -May 26,
Year 3 IPM4 moves to parcel C this time it works best to apply IPM4 from September 2026-2027

3 x IPM4 12 month aim complete in full, everyone is happy surely?

Never mind what the rpa think about it being agreement year or cropping year, whos cropping year.... we should be telling them this is how it works!

 

[Hindsight]

"it us up to you how you complete this action...." I can see absolutely no justification for rpa to complain on what start date is chosen or even if different start dates are applied to different parcels.

eg 1st March 2024 start agreement and it suits you to run IPM4 on parcel A from June 24 to June 25.
Year 2 IPM4 moves to parcel B and you decide to apply it from May 25 -May 26,
Year 3 IPM4 moves to parcel C this time it works best to apply IPM4 from September 2026-2027

3 x IPM4 12 month aim complete in full, everyone is happy surely?

Never mind what the rpa think about it being agreement year or cropping year, whos cropping year.... we should be telling them this is how it works!

This is copied from the Guidance version 3.0.

When to do it
You must do this action each year of your 3-year SFI agreement.

The SFI 3 years is presumably from the agreement start date and is for the 3 years. So if the start date is March 1st 2024 the three years ends 28 Feb 2027. So I am bemused how you can argue for any period other than that. As for cropping year - while farmers may want that flexibility Defra will be silly to grant that wish -the English is clear - it is for three years. However, I shall not be surprised if Defra Janet and John to roll over and go for the cropping year. Hey ho.

 

[Andy26]

View attachment 1161824
If you choose the option of Wild bird seed or legume fallow or nectar pollen... you have up to 12 months to establish that option and you must then retain that provision for the duration necessary to achieve the aims of that option.

Follow that logic and the guidance in the handbook you really should have up to 12 months to begin IPM4 on the declared parcel and you must then retain IPM4 on that parcel for the full 12 months.

You might decide the parcel in year 1 runs IPM4 from March to March 2024-25, next year you should be able to assign IPM4 to a different parcel and for different dates, perhaps June to June 2025-26 September to September 2026-27.

This is how it should work...

The only caveat is those options I mention specifically mention you have 12 months to start to establish them, this option doesn't specify this but neither does it specify IPM4 runs from the agreement start.. The guidance does specify "it is up to you how you complete this action" In my book if you carry out IPM4 on a parcel for a full 12 months the aim is met regardless of the start date.

This would be a perfectly ration approach, achieves the aims and as I read it within both the spirit and the letter of the rule book.

Anyone got an alternative view?

Just looking at this and that makes sense to me.

 

[farmerm]

Just looking at this and that makes sense to me.

Funny thing is as much as this does make sense I am now doubting myself...The scheme does include a line that says you must complete the actions you start , which to me means you have to deliver the aims of an action in full for each agreement year even if that goes beyond the agreement year.. yet it turns out you can establish Nectar pollen in month 11 of the agreement and terminate it at the end of the third year, only fully deliver on the aims twice but get paid for 3 years and somehow that is ok... so