Is Food Traceability A Marketing Con?

[digger64]

You may be right, but we don't need end users making claims that cannot be substantiated.
I am selling a high quality product that is traceable to local people.

These people are selling a similar product (and probably buying it cheaper) and claiming that it is the same as mine.
This eventually reflects badly on all genuine suppliers as when people have a bad experience they won't buy lamb, beef or pork etc because it was a bad eating experience. Many won't remember the brand but that it was a Shepherds Pie with lamb in it.

I am not bothered that they won't be able to tell me the name of the farm, but I really would like to know if it came from NZ or Wales and why they don't buy locally.

Thing is if they gave you a name out a hat on their supplier list could you prove them wrong ?

 

[case 5140]

We don't usually eat ready meals, but being flat out at the moment my wife had bought a Shepherds Pie from a well known local manufacturer. (I won't name it yet!)

We both commented that it was tainted, my bet was that it was Ram hogget, or worse something older. It was a poor eating experience and would put people off eating lamb if they thought it would taste like this.
I sent the company an email with the batch number and date of manufacture and asked where the meat had come from.
I received the standard reply, offering me a voucher for a free meal. I wrote back and declined.

I was told that all the meat either comes from Wales (company based in Kent) or New Zealand, depending on the season and was pasture fed and traceable back to farm!

I have written back again requesting they tell me whether it was Wales or NZ and what the name of the farm was!! That was on Friday so I will look forward to a reply next week.
I suggested that with the recent bad publicity about dodgy meat they need to use local traceable, pasture fed lamb!

This is a company that prides itself on its environmental credentials so it will be very interesting to see if I get to find out where this meat comes form.

Ram hogget, here in north wales all lambs that go to local market have their balls on !. I was the only one selling store lambs with out balls last year! (im english and spent 27 years farming their! used to sell at bakewell market)

 

[kiwi pom]

You may be right, but we don't need end users making claims that cannot be substantiated.
I am selling a high quality product that is traceable to local people.

These people are selling a similar product (and probably buying it cheaper) and claiming that it is the same as mine.
This eventually reflects badly on all genuine suppliers as when people have a bad experience they won't buy lamb, beef or pork etc because it was a bad eating experience. Many won't remember the brand but that it was a Shepherds Pie with lamb in it.

I am not bothered that they won't be able to tell me the name of the farm, but I really would like to know if it came from NZ or Wales and why they don't buy locally.

It shouldn’t be hard to do, the retailer should be able to audit their supplier, the supplier should be able to show when and with what the product was made. If the manufacturer doesn’t buy or kill their own stock they must use a supplier, that supplier should then be able to show where the meat came from and so on. I don’t think it’s that hard to do IF they actually do it.

 

[Deereone]

Ooh, I like that idea. We could start a thread where we report back. Maybe once we have a few results we could get a decent journalist involved and blow the lid on these claims.

Where the hell are you going to find a "decent journalist"? If there were any the lid would have been blown off this scam and many others by now.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Thing is if they gave you a name out a hat on their supplier list could you prove them wrong ?

Well I can give everyone an update on this as the purchasing manager contacted me today.
What he had to say was interesting and revealing as was the scale and quantities of meat they were using.

To put this into context, they use around 2 tons of lamb mince a week and half a ton of legs of lamb, plus some 4 tons of beef mince.
It all arrives to them frozen.
Most of the lamb mince is hogget (or possibly ewes) but wouldn't want that to be known. New season lambs doesn't make good mince for meals that will be frozen.

The "lamb" comes from a large abattoir in Wales, but probably kills more English and Scottish lambs than Welsh but is apparently all Red Tractor. What comes from New Zealand is supposed to be to the same standards. All has to be pre stunned killed.

Can it be traced back to a farm, probably not. The batch can be traced to a days kill and so they will know what they killed that day!!

It was good to talk to them, but I fear there is a level of naivety in the sourcing.
How many abattoirs actually freeze UK lamb legs and mince?
Once it is frozen then the opportunity for substitution must increase and traceability difficult.

 

[Wink]

Funny thing this ram taint.... I have actually put 6 x 3 year old unbred entire males through our shop, so far this year, as mutton. Had as good, if not noticeably better feedback than ever before on how good it's been - some have been new customers commenting they havnt tasted anything like it and that the flavour was unreal (in a good way). Not sure if its breed etc. but seems to be consistent.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Funny thing this ram taint.... I have actually put 6 x 3 year old unbred entire males through our shop, so far this year, as mutton. Had as good, if not noticeably better feedback than ever before on how good it's been - some have been new customers commenting they havnt tasted anything like it and that the flavour was unreal (in a good way). Not sure if its breed etc. but seems to be consistent.

What breed and diet?

 

[digger64]

Well I can give everyone an update on this as the purchasing manager contacted me today.
What he had to say was interesting and revealing as was the scale and quantities of meat they were using.

To put this into context, they use around 2 tons of lamb mince a week and half a ton of legs of lamb, plus some 4 tons of beef mince.
It all arrives to them frozen.
Most of the lamb mince is hogget (or possibly ewes) but wouldn't want that to be known. New season lambs doesn't make good mince for meals that will be frozen.

The "lamb" comes from a large abattoir in Wales, but probably kills more English and Scottish lambs than Welsh but is apparently all Red Tractor. What comes from New Zealand is supposed to be to the same standards. All has to be pre stunned killed.

Can it be traced back to a farm, probably not. The batch can be traced to a days kill and so they will know what they killed that day!!

It was good to talk to them, but I fear there is a level of naivety in the sourcing.
How many abattoirs actually freeze UK lamb legs and mince?
Once it is frozen then the opportunity for substitution must increase and traceability difficult.

So if there was a real problem or health issue , however small they would have destroy or recall 3 consecutive days total production to be sure because even though in theory the farmer / lamb buyer would have recorded the tags on the licence and will be allocated a kill/ batch no. for invoicing -but once weighed/inspected traceability ends there .

 

[digger64]

Funny thing this ram taint.... I have actually put 6 x 3 year old unbred entire males through our shop, so far this year, as mutton. Had as good, if not noticeably better feedback than ever before on how good it's been - some have been new customers commenting they havnt tasted anything like it and that the flavour was unreal (in a good way). Not sure if its breed etc. but seems to be consistent.

time of year and what they are mixed with before slaughter perhaps affects it

 

[Wink]

What breed and diet?

Barbados Black Belly x (bought from a forum member). Predominantly pp grass, with a trickle of nuts when short.

 

[unlacedgecko]

So if there was a real problem or health issue , however small they would have destroy or recall 3 consecutive days total production to be sure because even though in theory the farmer / lamb buyer would have recorded the tags on the licence and will be allocated a kill/ batch no. for invoicing -but once weighed/inspected traceability ends there .

Traceability ends at farm gate shock

 

[Wink]

time of year and what they are mixed with before slaughter perhaps affects it

Absolutely. Would have been away from any other sheep for weeks beforehand but were mixed upon arrival at the abattoir with other sheep. Maybe not long enough to make a difference.

 

[digger64]

Traceability ends at farm gate shock

no different to grain, potatoes or sugar beet then

 

[thorpe]

Funny thing this ram taint.... I have actually put 6 x 3 year old unbred entire males through our shop, so far this year, as mutton. Had as good, if not noticeably better feedback than ever before on how good it's been - some have been new customers commenting they havnt tasted anything like it and that the flavour was unreal (in a good way). Not sure if its breed etc. but seems to be consistent.

i bet therve not tasted anything like it

 

[kiwi pom]

Traceability ends at farm gate shock

Bit of a generalisation that I think, depends on the company and product but the tech seems to be there to do it.
Mentioned it on another thread but Mrs KP has to do traceability audits for frozen chips and can get it down to a paddock, truck load or a section of a store, which I thought was quite clever.
I believe Fonterra can say (after a lot of work) whether a product contained milk from a particular on-site silo, so if there was an issue, they can hold one batch of products.
It can be done, not everyone wants to do it though.

 

[texelburger]

Well I can give everyone an update on this as the purchasing manager contacted me today.
What he had to say was interesting and revealing as was the scale and quantities of meat they were using.

To put this into context, they use around 2 tons of lamb mince a week and half a ton of legs of lamb, plus some 4 tons of beef mince.
It all arrives to them frozen.
Most of the lamb mince is hogget (or possibly ewes) but wouldn't want that to be known. New season lambs doesn't make good mince for meals that will be frozen.

The "lamb" comes from a large abattoir in Wales, but probably kills more English and Scottish lambs than Welsh but is apparently all Red Tractor. What comes from New Zealand is supposed to be to the same standards. All has to be pre stunned killed.

Can it be traced back to a farm, probably not. The batch can be traced to a days kill and so they will know what they killed that day!!

It was good to talk to them, but I fear there is a level of naivety in the sourcing.
How many abattoirs actually freeze UK lamb legs and mince?
Once it is frozen then the opportunity for substitution must increase and traceability difficult.

If it's RT it should be traceable from farm to plate.If they can't then RT need to retract their claim in the adverts.
Perhaps we all should to go out and buy some RT products then ring and ask if they can tell us the farm it was produced on as they claim.If they can't then the whole thing is a con as they base their credibility on being able to trace from plate back to farm.

 

[digger64]

If it's RT it should be traceable from farm to plate.If they can't then RT need to retract their claim in the adverts.
Perhaps we all should to go out and buy some RT products then ring and ask if they can tell us the farm it was produced on as they claim.If they can't then the whole thing is a con as they base their credibility on being able to trace from plate back to farm.

In an insurance concept when would the producers liability for the product end if they could complete the chain ?

 

[yellowbelly]

Can it be traced back to a farm, probably not. The batch can be traced to a days kill and so they will know what they killed that day!!

So, the answer to your question in your OP then, is Yes, food traceability is a con.

Why do they make these claims when they know full well that they can't back them up?

It's just deception.

 

[kiwi pom]

If it's RT it should be traceable from farm to plate.If they can't then RT need to retract their claim in the adverts.
Perhaps we all should to go out and buy some RT products then ring and ask if they can tell us the farm it was produced on as they claim.If they can't then the whole thing is a con as they base their credibility on being able to trace from plate back to farm.

Do they say they can trace something all the way back to the farm, or do they say that because its assured and only assured produce is used you can trace the standards back through to the assured farms?
There's a difference there, it's something Clive got the wrong end of the stick on in a previous thread.

So, the answer to your question in your OP then, is Yes, food traceability is a con.

Why do they make these claims when they know full well that they can't back them up?

It's just deception.

Sorry but that's rubbish and a generalisation, for some it may be, and some companies might not bother with it, but the statement "food traceability is a con" is not true.

 

[texelburger]

In an insurance concept when would the producers liability for the product end if they could complete the chain ?

God knows.I just think it's so wrong to make these claims if they can't.