is it worth to buy apple anymore ?

[Highland Mule]

Still on my MacBook Pro 13" 2008 - and it's travelled the World and had a LOT of use (most of it on here probably )

No complaints

I bought an iPhone 5S for £50 secondhand to replace a 5C that crashed. Sim free and cheap BUT things are not always easy eg Instagram crashing , button control on volume failed etc.

Mate at work has an awesome Samsung 'phone and the 4-way camera photo results are amazing and probably better than I can get with my SLR

Do yourself a favour and find an SE iPhone to upgrade to. Same size, but with the brains from a 6, from memory.

 

[Scribus]

As metioned on another thread I found myself in need of a tablet and the only used ones available from a reputable phone retailer were 'refurbished' ipads, they believe it's not worth buying anything else second hand.

Anyway, I now find myself with an ipad and to be quite honest I really can't understand what all the fuss is about. Sure they can be handy but I pity those who enthuse endlessly about any 'device', they really must lead very empty lives.

 

[Cowabunga]

As metioned on another thread I found myself in need of a tablet and the only used ones available from a reputable phone retailer were 'refurbished' ipads, they believe it's not worth buying anything else second hand.

Anyway, I now find myself with an ipad and to be quite honest I really can't understand what all the fuss is about. Sure they can be handy but I pity those who enthuse endlessly about any 'device', they really must lead very empty lives.

For any device to be of use, you need to make it work for you. That means you putting some effort in to learn how to use it and imagine what you could use it for. If any of that is missing, then it is just an expensive toy.

 

[Scribus]

For any device to be of use, you need to make it work for you. That means you putting some effort in to learn how to use it and imagine what you could use it for. If any of that is missing, then it is just an expensive toy.

Righto!

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

For any device to be of use, you need to make it work for you. That means you putting some effort in to learn how to use it and imagine what you could use it for. If any of that is missing, then it is just an expensive toy.

Indeed. But the best stuff you should be able to use reasonably “intuitively”. Having to read a manual means something in the interface or design is lacking.

Obviously the more complex a machine the harder this becomes, but it should always be the goal of good design.

 

[Cowabunga]

Indeed. But the best stuff you should be able to use reasonably “intuitively”. Having to read a manual means something in the interface or design is lacking.

Obviously the more complex a machine the harder this becomes, but it should always be the goal of good design.

I am not aware of any manuals for tablets or even computers these days, or even for their apps.

It does take a tiny bit of effort to get everything working well though. Like setting the Mail app to work with all existing email accounts. Migrating all contacts. Finding and setting up apps that are not just interesting but useful and productive. Copying subscriptions to things like Kindle over to the new device and ditto accounts to whatever services and retailers that one already has or new ones as appropriate.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I am not aware of any manuals for tablets or even computers these days, or even for their apps.

It does take a tiny bit of effort to get everything working well though. Like setting the Mail app to work with all existing email accounts. Migrating all contacts. Finding and setting up apps that are not just interesting but useful and productive. Copying subscriptions to things like Kindle over to the new device and ditto accounts to whatever services and retailers that one already has or new ones as appropriate.

Oh they still exist alright...should you need one!

‎iPhone User Guide for iOS 12.3

‎Computers & Internet · 2018

itunes.apple.com

 

[Andrew]

Oh they still exist alright...should you need one!

‎iPhone User Guide for iOS 12.3

‎Computers & Internet · 2018

itunes.apple.com

iphones have a built in app called Tips which are a sort of quick start guide for any new software updates

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

iphones have a built in app called Tips which are a sort of quick start guide for any new software updates

I was vaguely aware of them, but never really used them.

 

[Dry Rot]

Indeed. But the best stuff you should be able to use reasonably “intuitively”. Having to read a manual means something in the interface or design is lacking.

Obviously the more complex a machine the harder this becomes, but it should always be the goal of good design.

I am quite shocked at the standard of expression by internet companies. Many simply do not write in what might pass for "normal" English. Language is for communicating and I have no problem with every day or even slang English provided it communicates the information that needs to be communicated. I recently cancelled my order, and asked for a refund, with a hosting company because they didn't use any punctuation at all! Apart from being intensly irritating, I just could not understand what they were getting at!

No manuals these days. They let us test stuff and if someone discovers how it works, they post the answer on the Internet and Google finds it.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I am quite shocked at the standard of expression by internet companies. Many simply do not write in what might pass for "normal" English. Language is for communicating and I have no problem with every day or even slang English provided it communicates the information that needs to be communicated. I recently cancelled my order, and asked for a refund, with a hosting company because they didn't use any punctuation at all! Apart from being intensly irritating, I just could not understand what they were getting at!

No manuals these days. They let us test stuff and if someone discovers how it works, they post the answer on the Internet and Google finds it.

It’s a lost discipline, technical writing, I’m afraid.

The tech changes so fast now they don’t really bother writing manuals which might take longer than the tech did to develop (and get superseded).

 

[Cowabunga]

It’s a lost discipline, technical writing, I’m afraid.

The tech changes so fast now they don’t really bother writing manuals which might take longer than the tech did to develop (and get superseded).

It is, I think, quite remarkable how people generally have adapted from being spoonfed through thick printed manuals on how to set stuff up and get it working, to how we are today. Today is far preferable in my opinion, where we are expected to think and work stuff out for ourselves and find the resources to do so, if it is too difficult, for ourselves also. I find this to be a very healthy state of affairs that would do well to be copied into other areas of life generally. It isn't for everyone perhaps, but I quite enjoy the process of learning this way.

 

[Dry Rot]

It is, I think, quite remarkable how people generally have adapted from being spoonfed through thick printed manuals on how to set stuff up and get it working, to how we are today. Today is far preferable in my opinion, where we are expected to think and work stuff out for ourselves and find the resources to do so, if it is too difficult, for ourselves also. I find this to be a very healthy state of affairs that would do well to be copied into other areas of life generally. It isn't for everyone perhaps, but I quite enjoy the process of learning this way.

The trouble is the young cannot reason. They learn lots of facts in school and college but not how to reason. I jokingly say that homo sapiens doesn't develop the ability to reason until the age of 65. Of course, I am joking......I think.

 

[Highland Mule]

The trouble is the young cannot reason. They learn lots of facts in school and college but not how to reason. I jokingly say that homo sapiens doesn't develop the ability to reason until the age of 65. Of course, I am joking......I think.

You read like a grumpy old man, I’m afraid, depending on how much you are joking or not. And the evidence is very much to the contrary of what you suggest.

Whittle was 23 when he patented the jet engine.
Einstein was 26 when he formulated his theory of relativity.
Babbage was 23 when he came up with the idea of the difference engine.
James Watt was 40 when he came up with his steam engine.

From https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/w11359.html

42 percent of innovations came about when their creators were in their 30s, while 40 percent occurred when the inventors were in their 40s, and 14 percent appeared when the inventors were over 50. Second, there were no great achievements produced by innovators before the age of 19, and only 7 percent were produced by innovators at or before the age of 26 (Einstein's age when he performed his prize winning work). Third, the age distributions for the Nobel Prize winners and the technologists are nearly identical.

 

[Cowabunga]

The trouble is the young cannot reason. They learn lots of facts in school and college but not how to reason. I jokingly say that homo sapiens doesn't develop the ability to reason until the age of 65. Of course, I am joking......I think.

The young don’t seem to have a problem with these gadgets though, so they must have some primitive kind of reasoning that I don’t recall to have existed much before the turn of the century. Not so commonly at any rate.

 

[Cowabunga]

You read like a grumpy old man, I’m afraid, depending on how much you are joking or not. And the evidence is very much to the contrary of what you suggest.

Whittle was 23 when he patented the jet engine.
Einstein was 26 when he formulated his theory of relativity.
Babbage was 23 when he came up with the idea of the difference engine.
James Watt was 40 when he came up with his steam engine.

From https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/w11359.html

42 percent of innovations came about when their creators were in their 30s, while 40 percent occurred when the inventors were in their 40s, and 14 percent appeared when the inventors were over 50. Second, there were no great achievements produced by innovators before the age of 19, and only 7 percent were produced by innovators at or before the age of 26 (Einstein's age when he performed his prize winning work). Third, the age distributions for the Nobel Prize winners and the technologists are nearly identical.

I agree. Maximum creative productivity seems to occur between the age of 15 and 40. Peak seems to be attained through combined experience, authority and capability, between 30 and 45 from my totally non-scientific 60 years of human observation.

 

[Dry Rot]

You read like a grumpy old man, I’m afraid, depending on how much you are joking or not. And the evidence is very much to the contrary of what you suggest.

Whittle was 23 when he patented the jet engine.
Einstein was 26 when he formulated his theory of relativity.
Babbage was 23 when he came up with the idea of the difference engine.
James Watt was 40 when he came up with his steam engine.

From https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/w11359.html

42 percent of innovations came about when their creators were in their 30s, while 40 percent occurred when the inventors were in their 40s, and 14 percent appeared when the inventors were over 50. Second, there were no great achievements produced by innovators before the age of 19, and only 7 percent were produced by innovators at or before the age of 26 (Einstein's age when he performed his prize winning work). Third, the age distributions for the Nobel Prize winners and the technologists are nearly identical.

But I AM a grumpy old man!

You have listed achievers who are all in their (relative) youth. Why? Because they are a tiny minority of the population! So I'm afraid you have not proved your point. "The exception does not prove the rule".

I have young people here on 'cultural exchange'. It is fascinating to watch them struggle with a problem. They apply the 'facts' that they have learnt at school without any reasoning behind them. By their twenties, they have al the facts, very little of the reasoning, and think they know it all. I, who have been doing the same thing for over 60 years, know nothing. It absolutely staggers them that my methods, which aren't in the book, actually work. Then they go back to what they have learnt by rote and the reasoning is put to the back of their minds! Now, try applying a little reasoning to the statistics you quote and I think you'll find you have shot yourself in the foot.

As for the rest, there's a clue in the screen name.

 

[Highland Mule]

But I AM a grumpy old man!

You have listed achievers who are all in their (relative) youth. Why? Because they are a tiny minority of the population! So I'm afraid you have not proved your point. "The exception does not prove the rule".

I have young people here on 'cultural exchange'. It is fascinating to watch them struggle with a problem. They apply the 'facts' that they have learnt at school without any reasoning behind them. By their twenties, they have al the facts, very little of the reasoning, and think they know it all. I, who have been doing the same thing for over 60 years, know nothing. It absolutely staggers them that my methods, which aren't in the book, actually work. Then they go back to what they have learnt by rote and the reasoning is put to the back of their minds! Now, try applying a little reasoning to the statistics you quote and I think you'll find you have shot yourself in the foot.

As for the rest, there's a clue in the screen name.

I listed things by random with genuinely no idea if the protagonists were old or young, and then did the research. I could have kept looking, but after picking some fairly important discoveries, inventions and the likes I stopped looking. I’d invite you to find me some major discoveries by aged people though, as you see fit.

I’m saddened though by your perception of the youth - which doesn’t reflect my experiences at all. I have done voluntary STEM work with primary kids and also university recruitment drives and in both cases was amazed by their ability to innovate.

 

[Scribus]

I listed things by random with genuinely no idea if the protagonists were old or young, and then did the research. I could have kept looking, but after picking some fairly important discoveries, inventions and the likes I stopped looking. I’d invite you to find me some major discoveries by aged people though, as you see fit.

I’m saddened though by your perception of the youth - which doesn’t reflect my experiences at all. I have done voluntary STEM work with primary kids and also university recruitment drives and in both cases was amazed by their ability to innovate.

No great discovery I know but 'Colonel' Sanders was 62 when he sold the first KFC franchise. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Highland Mule]

No great discovery I know but 'Colonel' Sanders was 62 when he sold the first KFC franchise. Just thought I'd mention it.

I would never have come up with that one - was that the first “innovator” you searched for? If it was, it’s an interesting insight into your psyche!