Is Ryegrass all its cracked up to be?

[dogjon]

Here in the grass seed capital of the world, some of us are really liking some of the new soft leaf fescues. DLF is doing some pretty cool stuff with festoliums also. Seem to be ahead of the pack using dna markers.

 

[Barleycorn]

We have all but given up ryegrass. We use mainly cocksfoot and meadow fescue, with a bit of tall oat grass, meadow grass, plus clovers and herbs.
Not only does it yield well, it puts a lot of organic matter back into the soil with it's deep root system.
I have seen little benefit of festololiums over meadow fescue. Also the joy of cocksfoot is that it only seeds once, so if it's seeded on your first cut it comes back lush and leafy for following cuts or grazing.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Traditionaly around here they would only use late heading Ryegrass, for cutting and grazing, what has bought about this fad of putting alk this early and intermediate stuff in I don't know

 

[milkloss]

We have all but given up ryegrass. We use mainly cocksfoot and meadow fescue, with a bit of tall oat grass, meadow grass, plus clovers and herbs.
Not only does it yield well, it puts a lot of organic matter back into the soil with it's deep root system.
I have seen little benefit of festololiums over meadow fescue. Also the joy of cocksfoot is that it only seeds once, so if it's seeded on your first cut it comes back lush and leafy for following cuts or grazing.

Didn't know that about cocksfoot, do you find it gets tufty? Somebody told me you need enough of it in the ley and then it doesn't seem to tuft.

Traditionaly around here they would only use late heading Ryegrass, for cutting and grazing, what has bought about this fad of putting alk this early and intermediate stuff in I don't know

Never had much luck planting late stuff. Admittedly we struggle to get grass planted before late September but the lates always need patching up whereas earlies seem to grow like stink. Do you think that is a trait of late grasses or us being crap?

 

[Jackson4]

Didn't know that about cocksfoot, do you find it gets tufty? Somebody told me you need enough of it in the ley and then it doesn't seem to tuft.


Never had much luck planting late stuff. Admittedly we struggle to get grass planted before late September but the lates always need patching up whereas earlies seem to grow like stink. Do you think that is a trait of late grasses or us being crap?

cant stand cocksfoot! might be alright for cows but it not as palatable as rygrass and even when its short it gets stepped on and leys flat on the floor and they dont seem to eat it. Heaven help if you let it get any height as it becomes an unpalatable clump with strong stems and rusty.
Apparently it doesnt clump for the first 3 years? i guess as long as it was grazed very hard and not left to get to any height, ie taking it to a cutting height it might be controllable. Meadow fescue used to be used more than it is today.. think the problems with it are small seed and long time to get established.
Ryegrass undoutebly has the quality and paletability and nitrogen use efficiency etc but i wonder if there is scope to stress test it and find more persistent, deeper rooting and capable of keeping the quality all summer and under stress from the weather or nutrients etc etc. If other grasses can do it better there must be scope to improve. I guess its like everything kept in the lap of luxury and sold on its performance with it.. one stress in the real world (different weather/soil/nutrient status/grazing height/compaction etc) and the performance maybe less than what you reseeded from.

 

[salers]

Seed companys dont seem to push cocksfoot/ fescues, seem to have one mix in the back of the glossy catalogues.
Find ryegrass does not last long enough to make reeseeding economically viable here,any extra performance only just about pays for putting a new ley in.
Going to have to look at cocksfoot and fescues now as we are on marginal ground, who knows of a company thst sells these mixtures?

 

[More to life]

Seed companys dont seem to push cocksfoot/ fescues, seem to have one mix in the back of the glossy catalogues.
Find ryegrass does not last long enough to make reeseeding economically viable here,any extra performance only just about pays for putting a new ley in.
Going to have to look at cocksfoot and fescues now as we are on marginal ground, who knows of a company thst sells these mixtures?

@Great In Grass

 

[DrWazzock]

It's not just us then. We have naturally poor heathland sands here with the odd field of heavier sandy loam. We normally dry out and burn up by now which makes the seedheading even worse.

As said, by this time of year the ryegrass has gone to wiry seed heads with precious little leaf at all. This is in clover leys. They do improve and get a bit leafier for longer the longer they are down and fertility builds, that is unless we get a wet winter then the compaction holds them back.

We run a low N input grass regime here, trying to rely on the clover, and we don't graze intensively.

So what to try? Festololiums, Meadow Fecsues, Cocksfoot, Timothy? We have used Cocksfoot in the mixes in the past but it was nothing special.

From what I see of the environment strips, meadow fescues seem to do well, keep the leaf and palatability. Granted they won't have the energy and protein of ryegrass but they last longer through the year and hay dries quicker. Lambs are creep fed to bring them on anyway and as long as the cattle and sheep are on a maintenance diet that's all we ask when they are on the grass. We like a bit of horse hay as well, but the horse people don't like high protein ryegrass and clover.

Trying to work with the land here, not against it. Very interesting.

 

[Great In Grass]

Seed companys dont seem to push cocksfoot/ fescues, seem to have one mix in the back of the glossy catalogues.
Find ryegrass does not last long enough to make reeseeding economically viable here,any extra performance only just about pays for putting a new ley in.
Going to have to look at cocksfoot and fescues now as we are on marginal ground, who knows of a company thst sells these mixtures?

So what to try? Festololiums, Meadow Fecsues, Cocksfoot, Timothy? We have used Cocksfoot in the mixes in the past but it was nothing special.

I suggest you both have a look at Barenbrug's "Barmix" mixture which contains new Tall fescue varieties with their very soft leaves, very late heading and excellent dry matter production. Also the new Cocksfoot variety Bartyle This variety is very late heading but has a good spring growth, which makes it suitable in many different systems. As Bartyle starts to grow early but heads late, its harvest window is very wide. It is well adapted to grazing and because of an excellent rust and disease resistance. Bartyle produces a very palatable forage!

 

[Barleycorn]

This is a very good article about cocksfoot.
https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/seed-info/cocksfoot-black-sheep-grass-family

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Didn't know that about cocksfoot, do you find it gets tufty? Somebody told me you need enough of it in the ley and then it doesn't seem to tuft.


Never had much luck planting late stuff. Admittedly we struggle to get grass planted before late September but the lates always need patching up whereas earlies seem to grow like stink. Do you think that is a trait of late grasses or us being crap?

We always reseeded in the spring and grazed as soon as it would take stock to force tillers, open sward would be more of a problem early verities I would have thought

 

[Beef farmer]

@Great In Grass what's your view on that mix. Is the chicory,burnet,rib grass,yarrow and sheep's parsley needed? Also more white clover and drop the red for grazing?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

View attachment 355908 @Great In Grass what's your view on that mix. Is the chicory,burnet,rib grass,yarrow and sheep's parsley needed? Also more white clover and drop the red for grazing?

There's no Red Leg in it!

 

[Beef farmer]

Red leg?

 

[DrWazzock]

Don't see many Fescue or Cocksfoot mixes that also contain clover. Is there a reason for this?

Also, why not mix Fescues, Cocksfoot and Ryegrass and add clover?

Probably a good reason but I don't know it.

 

[Bury the Trash]

PRG doing as well as ever here (mainly loam) I like it as it lets the clovers thrive after cut and later in the season.We are also 'chucking' a bit of chickory in with every reseed - this does well for us and has coped with hard grazing and extreme wet weather and survived and is doing well
PRG also goes well in our red clover shorter term mixes and is even in our 3 and a half year old lucerne ley and is still viable/grazed as much as cutting .........despite what 'advisors' might say......
edit : agree with @Jackson4 sheep here are not so keen on cocksfoot or timothy beyond very early (when there's not much else) season...

 

[100percent]

cant stand cocksfoot! might be alright for cows but it not as palatable as rygrass and even when its short it gets stepped on and leys flat on the floor and they dont seem to eat it. Heaven help if you let it get any height as it becomes an unpalatable clump with strong stems and rusty.
Apparently it doesnt clump for the first 3 years? i guess as long as it was grazed very hard and not left to get to any height, ie taking it to a cutting height it might be controllable. Meadow fescue used to be used more than it is today.. think the problems with it are small seed and long time to get established.
Ryegrass undoutebly has the quality and paletability and nitrogen use efficiency etc but i wonder if there is scope to stress test it and find more persistent, deeper rooting and capable of keeping the quality all summer and under stress from the weather or nutrients etc etc. If other grasses can do it better there must be scope to improve. I guess its like everything kept in the lap of luxury and sold on its performance with it.. one stress in the real world (different weather/soil/nutrient status/grazing height/compaction etc) and the performance maybe less than what you reseeded from.

Cocksfoot has come on a lot, much more palatable now, this was down 6 years ago for arable reversion. We have been growing different blends of it for about 12 years and still have not perfected it yet! But plus points are minimal fert, very early starter about 3wks before any ryegrass growth second deepest roots to Westerwolds so a good soil improver, drought tolerant, and in a mix makes some very good quality silage. It can't be compared to the tussocks you see growing in the verges. Bad points are only really that it is much harder to manage, when you think it's stocked right double everything or it will get away on you, hence every field we sow is in the manner that we can mow it if need be, also much slower to establish the second year is when you really see the benefits. The mix has 8kgs of Cocksfoot in it with fescues and Timothy also 1kg merviot red clover and a kilo and a half of white to take over as the red dies out. Photos were the 22nd May and were stocked for lambing.

 

[jonny]

What's cocksfoot like on heavy land for sheep grazing only ?

 

[100percent]

Grows just the same may take longer to establish so probably better with a couple of kilos of ryegrass with it