Is the west agricultural industry being run by an academic led doomsday cult ?

[banjo]

Personally I think the agricultural industry in the uk and other western countries is being run by an academic led doomsday cult. The brainwashed individuals in positions of power everywhere are being led by anti meat eating and climate change snake oil salesmen that have no business deciding what stock farmers and crop farmers should produce and what subsidies they get to produce the product that the farmer sells to make a profit.
subsidies were totally changed from production during 2000 to area payment that reduced the stocking on all farms, this subsidised the farmer for less product while taking care of the environment and keeping food supply stable. now all these years later the farmers that listened to these academics and uk and eu conservationists are told what they told us to do was all wrong and it’s destroying the planet and wildlife was in better fettle before they got involved in 2000.
I think farming is being run by a academic led doomsday cult and even our farmers union and farmers weekly, farming media, has been brainwashed by it all. Farming is in a downwards spiral ( especially in wales where many of the ministers in charge are against eating meat ) I look on at the people running the show from all parties in despair because they have no plan except deindustrialising the uk and wales ( doomsday cults do things like that ) while businesses are being destroyed and farming production is moved to another country.
i can see the replies now ( brexit caused it all ) we all know Europes farming is doing worse and is in constant rioting, protests because of this same situation where academic led doomsday cults are running the farming industry over there also )
the farmers union and all farming media should be kicking in the doors of certainly the welsh government to get these loons to see sense before it’s to late, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they are to heavily involved in the decision making process that caused this cluster f**k in the first place ?
hold on to your hats everyone because I can see the complete destruction of welsh farming and nobody is doing a thing about it because they are afraid to ruffle a few feathers and tell the loons in charge a few home truths !

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I think this is an interesting read to get your head around a different way of looking at agriculture;

After millennia of agricultural expansion, the world has passed ‘peak agricultural land’

The world produces more food than ever, but the amount of land we use is now falling. This means we can feed more people while restoring wild habitat.

ourworldindata.org

In brief, it says;

Global pasture has peaked. Global cropland has not.

This might come as a surprise as global meat consumption is increasing. How, then, can pasture for livestock have peaked and now be falling?

The world produces three times as much meat as it did 50 years ago. But how this meat is produced and what types of meat we eat have shifted. First, we produce a lot of pork and chicken which are not fed on pasture.

Second, a lot of our beef production has moved from open pasture grazing towards more intensive farming methods; this has spared land. This presents an important dilemma: grain-fed livestock is often more land-efficient than pasture-fed livestock, so you need less land overall; but the biodiversity on grazing lands is often better than on intensive croplands.

What this means is that more and more animals are being fed from crops grown on croplands, rather than on pasture. In fact, almost half of the world’s cropland is used to produce animal feed. Unfortunately, this conversion process from crops to meat is still an inefficient one, meaning we need a lot of land to produce a small amount of food.

Biofuels, too, have added additional pressure on croplands, especially in countries such as the US and Brazil.

 

[MrNoo]

I don't think it just the Welsh farming, the rest of us are in a similar position of sorts. The sums of money they are paying or will be paying farmers not to produce food is mind boggling. E.g. my agent told me of one of his customers who is putting over 800ha into Stewardship, his yearly payment will be over half a million for not growing cereals.
In my own case I was paid £42k under SFP and Stewardship is just over £140k for not producing anything except flowers and grass. My grandfather told my father that he would become a park keeper and nothing more and he was completely right.
The lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[banjo]

I think this is an interesting read to get your head around a different way of looking at agriculture;

After millennia of agricultural expansion, the world has passed ‘peak agricultural land’

The world produces more food than ever, but the amount of land we use is now falling. This means we can feed more people while restoring wild habitat.

ourworldindata.org

In brief, it says;

Global pasture has peaked. Global cropland has not.

This might come as a surprise as global meat consumption is increasing. How, then, can pasture for livestock have peaked and now be falling?

The world produces three times as much meat as it did 50 years ago. But how this meat is produced and what types of meat we eat have shifted. First, we produce a lot of pork and chicken which are not fed on pasture.

Second, a lot of our beef production has moved from open pasture grazing towards more intensive farming methods; this has spared land. This presents an important dilemma: grain-fed livestock is often more land-efficient than pasture-fed livestock, so you need less land overall; but the biodiversity on grazing lands is often better than on intensive croplands.

What this means is that more and more animals are being fed from crops grown on croplands, rather than on pasture. In fact, almost half of the world’s cropland is used to produce animal feed. Unfortunately, this conversion process from crops to meat is still an inefficient one, meaning we need a lot of land to produce a small amount of food.

Biofuels, too, have added additional pressure on croplands, especially in countries such as the US and Brazil.

Uk farmers are the best in the world and our production is mostly from meat pasture not stockyards, the brainwashing of the younger generation is complete if you think differently. Subsidies are capped for most but some ( who are part of this academic led doomsday cult ) seem to nit have a cap wonder why that is ?

 

[banjo]

I don't think it just the Welsh farming, the rest of us are in a similar position of sorts. The sums of money they are paying or will be paying farmers not to produce food is mind boggling. E.g. my agent told me of one of his customers who is putting over 800ha into Stewardship, his yearly payment will be over half a million for not growing cereals.
In my own case I was paid £42k under SFP and Stewardship is just over £140k for not producing anything except flowers and grass. My grandfather told my father that he would become a park keeper and nothing more and he was completely right.
The lunatics are running the asylum.

I make half of what you get before I pay any bills and the small farming industry is being thrown under the bus by ( the academic led doomsday cult ) it’s a form of oppression I’ve never seen before forcing generations of hill farmers of the land in favour of forestry and wealthy investor. Half of the farms sold during the last few years went to non farmers and most will be planted.
young farmers everywhere being forced out of the market by people who have no interest in farming and the people you mentioned are happy to let their fellow farmers go.

 

[Skimmer]

I don't think it is about food or wildlife it's more about control.

 

[DrDunc]

Academic led doomsday cult?

No, it's far less complicated, but far more sinister

There are huge profits to be made from processed food, and fossil fuels. There's just the slightly thorny issue of pollution and climate change to overcome

Step forward some pseudo science that doesn't stand up to secondary school pupil scrutiny, never mind peer reviewed and referenced work validated by academics

Pay off enough politicians to spout their belief that the bollox is fact, and BOOM, the world has a scapegoat

Ruminant livestock are destroying the planet, so you see, it's OK to fly off on holiday, and eat food that more resembles industrial chemical waste than something that grew from actual soil

Climate change accelerates, urban consciences are placated, and profits soar




The future matters not to the those in control of the conspiracy

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Academic led doomsday cult?

No, it's far less complicated, but far more sinister

There are huge profits to be made from processed food, and fossil fuels. There's just the slightly thorny issue of pollution and climate change to overcome

Step forward some pseudo science that doesn't stand up to secondary school pupil scrutiny, never mind peer reviewed and referenced work validated by academics

Pay off enough politicians to spout their belief that the bollox is fact, and BOOM, the world has a scapegoat

Ruminant livestock are destroying the planet, so you see, it's OK to fly off on holiday, and eat food that more resembles industrial chemical waste than something that grew from actual soil

Climate change accelerates, urban consciences are placated, and profits soar




The future matters not to the those in control of the conspiracy

I was in compete agreement until the last word.
It's not a conspiracy.
It's the new norm in globalised capitalism.

 

[Hindsight]

Well earlier this evening I was stuck and traffic ground to a halt at MaccieDs corner in Grantham. Twas 6.15 pm and the place was gridlocked as the drive thru was flat out. Cars couldn't get into the site, so queued up on the main road. Don't even get out of the car now to walk to get their burger. So for all your fears plenty of demand for meat - albeit a Burger in South Lincolnshire. Memo to self don't come through town that time of day.

 

[kiwi pom]

I think this is an interesting read to get your head around a different way of looking at agriculture;

After millennia of agricultural expansion, the world has passed ‘peak agricultural land’

The world produces more food than ever, but the amount of land we use is now falling. This means we can feed more people while restoring wild habitat.

ourworldindata.org

In brief, it says;

Global pasture has peaked. Global cropland has not.

This might come as a surprise as global meat consumption is increasing. How, then, can pasture for livestock have peaked and now be falling?

The world produces three times as much meat as it did 50 years ago. But how this meat is produced and what types of meat we eat have shifted. First, we produce a lot of pork and chicken which are not fed on pasture.

Second, a lot of our beef production has moved from open pasture grazing towards more intensive farming methods; this has spared land. This presents an important dilemma: grain-fed livestock is often more land-efficient than pasture-fed livestock, so you need less land overall; but the biodiversity on grazing lands is often better than on intensive croplands.

What this means is that more and more animals are being fed from crops grown on croplands, rather than on pasture. In fact, almost half of the world’s cropland is used to produce animal feed. Unfortunately, this conversion process from crops to meat is still an inefficient one, meaning we need a lot of land to produce a small amount of food.

Biofuels, too, have added additional pressure on croplands, especially in countries such as the US and Brazil.

Land use is one of the biggest issues facing the planet but it's very difficult to balance what is best for a particular piece of land and what is best for the person who owns it.
Livestock on grasslands that cannot be used for cropping or anything else makes sense. Using cropping hand to produce livestock feed is more complicated, especially when you add in not just the land, but all the steel, concrete and diesel needed to produce it.

 

[DrDunc]

I was in compete agreement until the last word.
It's not a conspiracy.
It's the new norm in globalised capitalism.

Capitalists have conspired to control the market to maximise their profits for centuries prior to the industrial revolution

They've just become an awful lot better at their conspiring and their control

 

[kiwi pom]

Well earlier this evening I was stuck and traffic ground to a halt at MaccieDs corner in Grantham. Twas 6.15 pm and the place was gridlocked as the drive thru was flat out. Cars couldn't get into the site, so queued up on the main road. Don't even get out of the car now to walk to get their burger. So for all your fears plenty of demand for meat - albeit a Burger in South Lincolnshire. Memo to self don't come through town that time of day.

McDonalds buys an awful lot of produce off farmers, often locally sourced too.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Capitalists have conspired to control the market to maximise their profits for centuries prior to the industrial revolution

They've just become an awful lot better at their conspiring and their control

Without globalism, they could never have gained the control they have to conspire.
That is what the WEF is.

 

[DrDunc]

McDonalds buys an awful lot of produce off farmers, often locally sourced too.

Then they process it full of industrial chemical, wrap it up in vast quantities of packaging, and sell it for enormous profit

Local sourced is just marketing hype for the gullible who think air plane flights aren't killing the planet because they're planting trees on farmland

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Land use is one of the biggest issues facing the planet but it's very difficult to balance what is best for a particular piece of land and what is best for the person who owns it.
Livestock on grasslands that cannot be used for cropping or anything else makes sense. Using cropping hand to produce livestock feed is more complicated, especially when you add in not just the land, but all the steel, concrete and diesel needed to produce it.

In the article, she was only a few minutes from a eureka moment of realising that using land for producing the massive amounts of energy to produce 'fake' food or ultra-process normal foods, might actually use more land and diminish biodiversity that grazing animals don't.

 

[ollie989898]

I don't think it just the Welsh farming, the rest of us are in a similar position of sorts. The sums of money they are paying or will be paying farmers not to produce food is mind boggling. E.g. my agent told me of one of his customers who is putting over 800ha into Stewardship, his yearly payment will be over half a million for not growing cereals.
In my own case I was paid £42k under SFP and Stewardship is just over £140k for not producing anything except flowers and grass. My grandfather told my father that he would become a park keeper and nothing more and he was completely right.
The lunatics are running the asylum.

I think I would be taking the money thanks very much. It was always the same though- governments telling folk what they should or shouldn't do with their land. One minute they were telling farmers, in fact nearly forcibly insisting that X and Y was ploughed up, even though people with local knowledge knew full well that to plough and try and bring certain fields into cultivation was a fools errand, but it was done anyway. Now you've got the reverse, nutters prepared to pay you big money to grow nothing of any commercial use.

It does make you wonder what if the government just left folk to it? Food would be produced. Some land would be farmed, other land not. Nature would get by, folk would have to make money selling food or do something else and what is more it wouldn't cost the tax payer a bean. Quite amusing really.

At the end of the day, it's only a topper and a go with the plough before it could all be brought back into production again anyway.

 

[kiwi pom]

Then they process it full of industrial chemical, wrap it up in vast quantities of packaging, and sell it for enormous profit

Local sourced is just marketing hype for the gullible who think air plane flights aren't killing the planet because they're planting trees on farmland

Nope not really. Chips are chips, Beef patties are ground beef, lettuce is.... you get the idea.
They source locally when they can and bring in outside produce when they can't, just like farmers with their inputs.
They do make a profit though, that's why they are in business.
They wouldn't exist otherwise. Plenty of farmers make money supplying them too.

 

[DrDunc]

Nope not really. Chips are chips, Beef patties are ground beef, lettuce is.... you get the idea.
They source locally when they can and bring in outside produce when they can't, just like farmers with their inputs.
They do make a profit though, that's why they are in business.
They wouldn't exist otherwise. Plenty of farmers make money supplying them too.

I'm afraid you lost any credulity claiming "chips are chips"

Please go away and look up ultra processed food, and the effects it has upon the human body. Perhaps you'll even learn how little potato is actually required to fabricate macdonalds "chips"

The sliver of vegetable decorating industrially manufactured "fast food" is just glitter on a turd

Your defence of the marketing hype only proves the effectiveness of the nonsense which has found the world believing livestock are causing the pollution that is actually created by fossil fuels and processed foods

 

[wanton dwarf]

At the end of the day, it's only a topper and a go with the plough before it could all be brought back into production again anyway.

Not if the infrastructure has gone for current ag

Nitrogen, PK, Lime, Certified Seed, Chems & all the industries processing Combinables & Meat - once gone nobody will have the money, machinery or industrial capacity to bring it back on their own

Think worse than WW1 era infrastructure & no livestock for fertiliser

 

[Cowabunga]

I'm afraid you lost any credulity claiming "chips are chips"

Please go away and look up ultra processed food, and the effects it has upon the human body. Perhaps you'll even learn how little potato is actually required to fabricate macdonalds "chips"

The sliver of vegetable decorating industrially manufactured "fast food" is just glitter on a turd

Your defence of the marketing hype only proves the effectiveness of the nonsense which has found the world believing livestock are causing the pollution that is actually created by fossil fuels and processed foods

McDonalds buy and use 4100 tons of potatoes worldwide every day of the year. That’s 1.5 million tons of spuds taken/bought annually by one single customer.