Is there any future in suckler cows ?

[brigadoon]

Aye well some folk have cows for a living!
That cow in your picture is lean, maybe you've to many trees and not enough grass

The cow is lean - has been all her life (and is tested Johnes, IBR and BVD free) - but her calf isn't - nor was the one before or the one after. Not too shabby at £200

The bull does not seem to be suffering from grass deficiency

 

[DB67]

We creep early as we sell 7/8 months old and try to get them as heavy as can. Weight pays in this game.

 

[M-J-G]

thats what i do i dont wean till 10 months old, but as you say milk quality gets poorer so thats why creep is introduced

Milk quality does not drop back in later lactation, it actually gets richer.

 

[muleman]

In some cases it can be cheaper and more cost-efficient to creep than not to creep.
Our calves are march/april born...we creep them august onwards to get them grown to sell at the november suckled calf sales.
It costs £50/£60 per head,if we didnt creep we wouldnt have the size or condition on them to get them sold and would have to over winter them which is very costly in our area where everything has to be bought in...it would cost over £200 to winter them.
So in some systems it pays to creep.

 

[M-J-G]

Good grass & good stockmanship , there was research done once that feeding concentrates to heifers can reduce their feed efficiency as an adult - basicly if you creep feed you probably reduce efficiency in the long run as they will be dependant on it like a drug whether they need it or not!
This is basic stuff if you want to make a profit from Suckler cow's, grass is the key to profit.

I wasn't aware of research suggesting that creep would effect their feed efficiency, but I have read reports from several studies on creep feeding both heifers and ewe lambs, and all seemed prerty much conclusive that it was detrimental to their milking ability.

For that reason I have never crept heifer calves.
Ironically they have still regularly gained within 0.05 of their steer cohorts who received creep for a month or so pre weaning.

 

[M-J-G]

No doubt creep pays in some cases.

In a rotational grazing situation it can lead to a lot of work, particularly on a spread out land base where you have say 4 batches of cows, with a group to move every day or so, meaning a forklift/loader has to head off every day to move creeps as well as fill them.
Which doesn't sound like that much, but if cows are getting a bale of silage/straw too, it means 2 things need moved and refilled.

None of these jobs are too bad, but if it's during harvest, silage, autumn sowing time, it can be a PITA and a distraction.

 

[livestock 1]

In some cases it can be cheaper and more cost-efficient to creep than not to creep.
Our calves are march/april born...we creep them august onwards to get them grown to sell at the november suckled calf sales.
It costs £50/£60 per head,if we didnt creep we wouldnt have the size or condition on them to get them sold and would have to over winter them which is very costly in our area where everything has to be bought in...it would cost over £200 to winter them.
So in some systems it pays to creep.

I agree with you there. I sold some 5 month old calves a few years ago around August time which had had no feed whatsoever and they averaged £750. Many said I should of kept them and sold them with the rest around 15/18 months to get four figures. But that’s another winter and although we had them up to £1240 it’s a fair cost to get them there. I think if you can push them on and get shot early it’s a good plan. Something I haven’t managed here lately. The young weaning beast always look dear to me compared to the big stores. Although they have been a bit cheaper lately but that’s more to with fodder shortage

 

[DRC]

do you get much bother with staggers feeding cattle that out in the wet autumns?

They are only on it for a few hours a day, before back on grass with access to straw. I thought staggers was a spring problem. Should I be worried?

 

[CharcoalWally]

They are only on it for a few hours a day, before back on grass with access to straw. I thought staggers was a spring problem. Should I be worried?

Staggers can occur in the Autumn as well.

 

[DRC]

Staggers can occur in the Autumn as well.

Never seen it when we were contract rearing rearing dairy heifers.
Would it likely be a problem for young stock on fodder crops?

 

[Samcowman]

you guys that dont creep....when do you bring the calves in for the winter and wat age to you wean them?

Calves born Feb, March , April. Weaning now. A few weeks earlier than usual due to wanting them weaned before bloody TB testing. They will stay in now and about half of the cows will go back out for as long as possible.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Never struggled in the past with them.
Got lots of grass in front of them shelter in trees/woods around here is good too you would hardley tell they were wet this morning.
But I wouldn’t mind just trying to push them a little harder in future.

Try raising the hotwire so the calves can creep under, like my lamb creep fence?

Top wire keeps the cattle
Bottom wire keeps the ewe
Lamb lives on milk and clover, they don't go far from mum.

 

[M-J-G]

That trains fence dodgers though.

 

[Hilly]

If your creeping form virtual`y day 1 why bother with the cow, just buy stores.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

That trains fence dodgers though.

Maybe, depends if you have them hungry I suppose? I have more poking under the back fence as a rule.
Nothing here can eat all of what's put in front of them, hence why I am starting a multi-suckler mob up.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

If your creeping form virtual`y day 1 why bother with the cow, just buy stores.

And leaving 3 teats without a calf on them?
Seems odd to have one calf per cow when a decent cow can wean 10 a year, and then be feeding said spoilt calf cake as well....
makes the cow a lot more expensive to run however hard you screw her?

 

[CharcoalWally]

Never seen it when we were contract rearing rearing dairy heifers.
Would it likely be a problem for young stock on fodder crops?

I never rear youngstock on fodder crops @silverfox , only pasture, and I'm not concerned about staggers in youngsters, only cows rearing calves who are having a greater demand placed on their body reserves .on ground like ours they need daily mag supplementation offered which they get in tubs.

 

[willie waver]

out of interest, with blends now up at around 230, at what price would you guys that creep, decide that it was too expensive?

 

[Hilly]

out of interest, with blends now up at around 230, at what price would you guys that creep, decide that it was too expensive?

Some quoting 275 for a good beef cake now, how much of that to put a kilo on ?

 

[livestock 1]

Some quoting 275 for a good beef cake now, how much of that to put a kilo on ?

Realistically 3 or 4